New Sony FS7

Mitch Gross said:
What a load of nonsense. Marketing and promotion are just that, interest builders. They are not a commitment from a manufacturer. It's just your wishful thinking.
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You missed my point all together. I did not say that their spec sheet was a commitment. I said its inaccurate and usually optimistic. I also said every company does this...I am sure you agree....they do.

"My point" to reiterate for you is that its probably best not to jump ship on your rig based on a preproduction spec sheet. Maybe you do disagree with that. If so...so be it...your most definitely free to purchase anything you like as soon as you like it. The super early adopters are helpful to the rest of the group by finding out what those production issues are. So for that I am grateful.

I for one like to have all the facts before jumping ship or switching ecosystems. Having learned from mistakes, its helped me grow a successful business, though I expect everyone has their own concept of how to achieve a successful growing business. Calculated moves in a quickly changing market seems like a logical and educated step for me and has proven to work.
 
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ReelWorksMedia said:
You missed my point all together. I did not say that their spec sheet was a commitment. I said its inaccurate and usually optimistic. I also said every company does this...I am sure you agree....they do.

"My point" to reiterate for you is that its probably best not to jump ship on your rig based on a preproduction spec sheet. Maybe you do disagree with that. If so...so be it...your most definitely free to purchase anything you like as soon as you like it. The super early adopters are helpful to the rest of the group by finding out what those production issues are. So for that I am grateful.

I for one like to have all the facts before jumping ship or switching ecosystems.
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BMD...Never forget.
 
Well I guess you should re-read what yo wrote. Your disappointments as you listed came from buying into hype and promotion before finding out what the real products delivered. In the examples you gave Sony itself was not particularly over-optimistic in what it presented, but others latched on and created a false set of expectations based on what they wanted to be true. That is not Sony's fault and it is your own foolishness if you jump on that train as well.

You can't have it both ways. Either you get caught up in the excitement and expect too much or the manufacturer promises too much. But as you noted that you purchased a Scarlet camera without any real knowledge as to how it would perform I suggest that it is not the manufacturers who are to blame.
 
Mitch Gross said:
Well I guess you should re-read what yo wrote. Your disappointments as you listed came from buying into hype and promotion before finding out what the real products delivered. In the examples you gave Sony itself was not particularly over-optimistic in what it presented, but others latched on and created a false set of expectations based on what they wanted to be true. That is not Sony's fault and it is your own foolishness if you jump on that train as well.

You can't have it both ways. Either you get caught up in the excitement and expect too much or the manufacturer promises too much. But as you noted that you purchased a Scarlet camera without any real knowledge as to how it would perform I suggest that it is not the manufacturers who are to blame.
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Hey Mitch, your obviously not taking to my perspective here...so we will leave it at that. Both of our thoughts are not too far off in reality and I imagine if we were both having a cup of coffee and talking shop we would be more incline to see eye to eye about many topics. This, as it appears, is a misconception in point of view that, I suspect, is due to interpreting things online. I can say that you did not really get what I was saying and I'm sorry if I did not communicate my idea clearly enough.

My comment about being an early adopter of the Scarlet was also followed up with the idea that it was an experience that I learned from. Also, I did not jump on "the Sony train" as you put it. I did not purchase A7s early on because of this very reason, and I am now glad I did not (no disrespect to those who did). My point, put simply is, "I now prefer to purchase gear after its been field tested as the reality between marketing and product launch differs greatly sometimes from real world experience." I imagine on some level you do agree with me unless you do, in fact, like to make decisions based on spec sheets...and thats completely your choice if you do. No judgement there.

So rather than a long winded explanation of things I would rather give you the respect you are due in your opinions and also feel good about mine.

Best of luck to you.
 
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AtticusLake said:
Ummm.... maybe...

The F5 specs are here: http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/b...-motion-picture-camera/pmw-f5/specifications/
And FS7: http://www.sony.co.uk/pro/product/broadcast-products-camcorders-xdcam/pxw-fs7/specifications/

According to them, the F5 is 130 x 125 x 191 mm (without protrusions). The FS7 is 156 x 239 x 247 mm (body without protrusions). That's a lot bigger!

However it does seem Sony have been over-stating the size of the FS7. According to these slides: http://provideocoalition.com/awilt/story/122-slides-on-the-sony-pxc-fs7/P5

a more realistic size for the body without the top handle would be 135 x 140 x 197. That's still bigger than the F5, though.

Of course the F5 needs its battery brick added on, whereas the FS7's is internal, so that probably swings it the other way.
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The F5 is 219.9mm long with the PL mount. You have to count the PL mount. How are you going to use it without a lens? If you also count a shooting rig you have to count the battery mount and battery. This will bring the F5 to an average of 311mm in length depending on v-lock battery. You also have to count the protusions. You can't take them off and they add to the size. All together in cubic size the F5 is clearly larger.

And the FS7 brochure says 220x137.8x142.5 without top handle.

F5 brochure says 242.9x156.7x125mm without top handle and including PL mount and battery plate but no battery.
 
OK, fair enough, I stand corrected. Clearly Sony's concept of "body only without protrusions" varies dramatically depending on which spec sheet you look at. It's still bigger than I want.
 
ReelWorksMedia said:
Haha! Never had anyone call me a troll before. Congratulations! Wow...man, now for all the other level headed shooters out there....

I am sure you can see I am just clearing stating a logical point of not running out and buying gear the moment its announced on paper. If that makes me a "troll" , so be it. I can live with that. I have done it in the past as I am sure many people on here have as well. I just find, nowadays, for my company....with all of the fantastic cameras being released.....its best to find tested examples and know all of the flows of a camera before I invest. You can continue to buy blindly if money is not an issue. I for one, also am interesting in a consistently growing a business and making solid business decisions and know what I am getting myself into.

Best of luck to you friend. I won't waste my time defending a solid point of view.


Oh....by the way...what the heck are you talking about "based on this poster's history". To my knowledge I have never seen your screen name and always use respect when posting in regards to others point of view. I think you may have me confused with someone else that you may have had a bad experience with. Either way, cheers.


EDIT: I just reread your post. Looks like you quoted me and I may have misunderstood your comment. Sorry if that was the case. Best.
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Sorry for the confusion and thanks for the edit. I appreciate your perspective Realworksmedia and so far, I think you are right on point. I'd like to point out that your comments are being rated highly while other users's are simply not. Sony is 100% guilty of being, as you so kindly put it, "very optimistic". Maybe not as obviously with the a7s but definitely with the more expensive fs700. To me there is a very discernible gap between a company releasing a spec sheet and as a buyer understanding there may be unforeseen "quirks that come along with" or maybe even delays in achieving said specs... and when a company changes how to get those specs, charges the customers extra cost and then blames them for believing what was earlier stated.

Thank you for all of your hard work at cd Mitch, but Sony has the rep they have earned and there is no getting around that.
 
Marino215 said:
I'm convinced ET works for Sony. If that is in fact the case no wonder Sonys' stock is in the toilet.
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If you are convinced that I work for Sony, that just confirms that you are an idiot with poor judgment. No wonder you are always confused. and whining. Thanks for confirming that.
 
TomLenham said:
F5 for pro sets with PL lenses, FS7 for owner operators and smaller scale. F4 is fine as an eng style lens, you can whip it off and put a fast prime on for interviews and beauty shots. Actually it's E mount, which saves masses of money for those who can't afford cine glass and allows you to put a Speedbooster on for full frame hipsters. Add to that 4K internal, raw out, v-lock batteries, 14 stops and a decent looking form factor - looks like a winner to me.
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I want to be a full frame hipster.

hipster-trap-brooklyn2.jpg
 
evilthought said:
If you are convinced that I work for Sony, that just confirms that you are an idiot with poor judgment. No wonder you are always confused. and whining. Thanks for confirming that.
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Whooooa, shots fired! Haha, take it easy little fella... you don't wanna lose your job at a certain giant international company because of some name calling.

To give you some perspective, you're being flamed because you've aggressively sided with a massive corporation ....instead of, the colleagues and fellow industry professionals who are here to help each other but have become frustrated with the less than forthcoming business practices of said massive international company.
 
Wow! This thread gets more entertaining by the day. I for one am 90% sure I will be buying the FS7 to replace my FS100 and I've only bought two camreas over the last 7 years. It's the first camera at this price point that offers enough to make the move a no brainer. The other 10% will be in the footage that I see from the camera once it's released.
 
Gary W said:
Wow! This thread gets more entertaining by the day. I for one am 90% sure I will be buying the FS7 to replace my FS100 and I've only bought two camreas over the last 7 years. It's the first camera at this price point that offers enough to make the move a no brainer. The other 10% will be in the footage that I see from the camera once it's released.
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I'm also looking forward to more real-world tests of the ergonomics. I've seen a couple of comments that it doesn't actually sit that well on the shoulder without the extension at the back. It'd be ironic if it turns out to be another camera that needs building up to make it work.
 
Gary W said:
Wow! This thread gets more entertaining by the day. I for one am 90% sure I will be buying the FS7 to replace my FS100 and I've only bought two camreas over the last 7 years. It's the first camera at this price point that offers enough to make the move a no brainer. The other 10% will be in the footage that I see from the camera once it's released.
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If you like FS700 and F5 the FS7 should look same. I don't because I think it looks too much like video.
 
The photos of the FS7 on a shoulder look like it would be very front heavy especially with that 3 lb new power zoom lens. Perhaps Sony placed the shoulder rest nearer the back than the middle of the camera body hso that it would balance with the adapter, recorder, and a big brick battery on the back. Would the Amira's sliding shoulder mount work on this camera? It seems like such a good idea on the Amira. But, I have no experience with shoulder mounts. Do folks find it needs to be front heavy for steadiness or is almost neutral best for less fatigue? Just curious what people prefer.

Bob
 
For a camera to be well balanced on the shoulder it has to be longer or you could put the shoulder pad where the camera is in balance but then I'd guess the EVF would end up very far in the front.
 
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After 100's of hours of recent feature doc work on an F3, I am very skeptical of this shoulder mount idea on the FS7. The Cion is going to have the same kind of problems. There is no way these cameras are going to balance properly with a fixed sweet spot, given all the different battery and lens possibilities. Arri, like usual, got it right with their system on the Amira. I'd like to see the FS7 mated up the new Zacuto baseplate that's coming out soon. I may buy one for a variety of cameras after testing out the prototype at AbleCine recently.
 
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