new Sigma Cine "Classic"

Run&Gun said:
Someone over on REDUser posted a test/shootout yesterday with a bunch of 'vintage' and modern lenses, including the Sumire's, regular Tokina's & Sigma's and Zeiss standard speeds, among (lots of) others. I didn't see an index as to when each lens is done, so you can skip around, but they are all fonted so you know which lens and at what aperture you're viewing at all times. I believe they are all listed in order, though, on the RED post. Grab a snack, the whole thing is over 2 hours.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?177346-The-Agony-Of-Choice-Vintage-Modern-Lens-Shootout

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Very cool to see those lenses all together!

Being the sensor was VV, the larger format lenses had the sharpness. Cropping back down to s35 for the Zeiss Standards, some of that softened detail showed up.

I know this was a web thing. But some of the differences were pretty stark!

The Nikon and FD lenses had a solid look, and they are less harsh than some modern glass, but a tenth the cost. The only thing i dislike, is they have a lens flare that looks like the one computers have tried to emulate, and for some reason that bothers me.

Since i am talking lens flare, the Sumire has that soft glob of magenta that i prefer not to see.

Tokina Vista skews white into the lens flare, and blooms out into indisitinct shape. So, if i am going for a flared look, i might prefer some vista over the sumire. But under normal circumstances, i like them both.

Zeiss standards are so boring. I love it!!!

The Schneiders look like they read the market wrong, and doubled down on precise and neitral to a fault. Some of the uglier contrast and aberations of the bunch. It is looking so high end until you look closer, and the. It is just not hiding any of its faults. I’d have to go back, but i recall disliking the lens flare. Normally, i am ambivelant about lens flare, because i can avoid it, but some oenses are distracting on that front. The Zeiss CP.2 and Z series glass had igly flare, but the good thing was they just didn’t flare. So maybe if you aren’t banging a par can into the lens, the Schneider might look nice too.

Can’t say i had a favorite. They all had something going their way.

Hard to dislike the anamorphics and the tokina vistas. both have mojo, but the vistas are so sharp on vv.

Difficult to critique or praise the medium format glass. They are similar to the Zeiss stnadards to me, good old glass. Might need ff33 or larger sensors to take advantage if their attributes.
 
One thing to add about the FD lenses, they breathe a lot, especially some of the longer focal lengths. They did make a few of the longer lenses in internal focus versions, but you'll have to hunt for them.

I did see an M645 to something focal reducer somewhere, if I go back to a larger sensor I may need to get one. Need to fix one of my lenses too. Also note that the M645 series only goes to 24mm, and on the film camera this is a fish, so the glass in front is HUGE and heavy. Just something to note about the medium format lenses that may not fit well with FF35 or especially s35 sensors. Also all of my M645 glass breathes a bit, the entire lens assembly moved away from the sensor (infinity to close focus), so magnification will change with this motion. But most of them have 200 or a little better degrees of rotation on the focus ring. Glad I didn't sell my set now. 35, 45, 55, 80, 110, 210, 500mm, I moved to FD before completing some of the missing focal lengths like 24mm and replace my 80mm with a different version or maybe the 75mm. I shot a lot of stills with the 110 and 210, they were my favorites at the time. In truth I don't even know where my 80 went, it was the one that came with every camera, might be stuck on my old 1000s body somewhere.

But now we are far off topic again.
 
I didn’t mention it earlier, because this is more about the classic look, but i was surprised by how much i liked the Otus’. I wrote those off a long time ago, and didn’t even bother trying them, but seeing them against the “vintage look”, they jumped out, in a good way
 
Amazing test, thanks for sharing it

I haven't watched the whole thing but I wasn't awed by the OTUS and found the Kowa 16H way too compromised for my taste (that thing can't focus to save its life, the amount of astigmatism is way off the charts)

And then I loved some of the Leica-R lenses... which may be a strong personal bias because that's the vintage set that I own and it's exactly the look I'm used to
 
James0b57 said:
What are your thoughts, Teddy?
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I like what I see from Timur's footage. They seem to be nice "character lenses" with all the flaring. I'm a big fan of the Sigma Art series lenses as the 18-35mm is my main lens and I rarely ever take it off. However, some would consider them to be too sharp and clinical or "boring". The classic series look like they will be a good alternative.
 
I can see that. Nice observations. Does anyone know if they are the same shape and dimensions as the og series? Would be nice to be able to change looks without changing workflow.
 
James0b57 said:
I can see that. Nice observations. Does anyone know if they are the same shape and dimensions as the og series? Would be nice to be able to change looks without changing workflow.
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Timur mentioned that for now the prototypes are, they could possibly change for the final release:

"Their housings for now, are standard Sigma Cine prime housings. The T stops were not marked to accommodate the new transmission characteristics."
 
That is great to hear!

I can imagine being on a music video that needs to switch looks back and forth, and not needing to fuss with the rig, just swing a lens and go!
 
Teddy_Dem said:
Timur mentioned that for now the prototypes are, they could possibly change for the final release:

"Their housings for now, are standard Sigma Cine prime housings. The T stops were not marked to accommodate the new transmission characteristics."
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Hopefully the release versions include both f/stop and t/stop markings. It will be a pain in the butt to calculate DoF otherwise.
 
48769535716_d43bf9a80d_z.jpg

In this image, the lens is directed at the bright lights above the booth. The effect is some prett extreme lens flare. To my eye, the flare looks similar the sigma originals, but far more intense reflections.
 
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Sigma Classics
- plenty of atmospheric fog like flaring.
- sharp, even wide open (rep says the same fstop As the og)
- the word “classic” has real gold in the paint and sparkles like glitter.
- same dimensions as the og series.
 
You ever pick up an electic guitar and accidentally hit the bass string and get this loud unexpected WOOOOOMP sound? That is how the flare feels on the sogma to me. The otherwise very sharp sigma design that reflects everything, is a big jump. The look goes from sharp amd modern stills lens to hazy foggy effects lens.

48774871448_d887b442a7_n.jpg

48775407462_7e863bb6e8_n.jpg

^a foggy orb collects in front of the image whenever a light source is directed into the lens, soft sources and xmas lights included. It is like the hum of an electric guitar, and then wooomp! When a bright light source hits the lens, the effect is pretty extreme. Like plucking a bass string when the amp is turned to 11.

This kind of makes this lens unique. I wouldn’t want them as an A lens set, but they are compelling for some types of work, and to be honest, i can not think of any other lenses that do this... because why would anyone design a lens set like this.... unless there were already a bunch of good lenses out there.

If sigma dials back the effect, they have another good “A” set. But with all of the other lenses out there, it is kind of nice to have a lens so... out there. Especially since they are the same form factor as their main set. It’s like you get a Lens Baby that is the same form factor as your cine lenses... and that is a good option to have.
 
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This interview is informative and also relevant to the "modern-classic" lens debate:


The reality is that the type of sensor / lens / camera employed does not matter nearly as much as DP's like to think it matters.
 
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