New Project and beyond

H

Heartfelt

Well-known member
My Experience:
  • Some video-based audio work
  • Mostly recording/filming conferences or stage-based teaching
  • Musician/Engineer/Producer
  • Lots of live and some studio production

Quick Facts:
  • I have a borrowed HMC40 with the audio adaptor block
  • Will be purchasing a DSLR sometime soon for this company
  • About to shoot a product/service video
  • Video will be compilation of indoor/outdoor shots
  • Indoor shots are greenscreen (easy audio - non issue)
  • Outdoor shots will feature some interview scenarios

I have storyboarded and am walking through the technical issues. I expect with the filters and
audio gear I need to get hold of, that we will have an expense of $200-400. One problem is the
issue of what I buy now working with what we buy later.

Being that our facility is industrial and loud, I was considering using lapel mics for the outdoor
shots and thus for all shots. In doing so with the HMC40, I expect to run the lapels to a mixer
(pain for field work) and then to the camera. This camera allows you to send 1 channel of audio
and it splits to both channels.

Now, when we buy a camera, it will likely be a DSLR which they all seems to have stereo mini
jacks. That is fine for a single wireless or adapted, wired mic but to mix before the camera has
me thinking twice as in my audio work as I would never run from a mixer into a mini-jack anything.
<laugh>

In looking at lapels, Iam looking over the AT Pro 70 and the Shure SM93.




Is a shotgun mic truly disastrous (my suspicion) in an environment like the one I describe?
I would assume someone would have to hold it.

Do the lapels seem like the better option? The AT is the only cardioid of the two but it seems
as if it has a highend rolloff which doesn't thrill me.



Any thoughts on my situation would be appreciate.
Thanks
Rob
 
Rob,

The right mixer is a joy to use, think Sound Devices 302.
You might want to use both a shotgun and lav to two different tracks. More options are good.
The lavs you mentioned don't get a lot of notice here. You might look at the Rode lav or pinmic, Countryman, and Sanken COS-11. The least expensive of these is the Countryman EMW and it a very respectable lav.
I can't make any comment about your noisy location, but shotguns are very directional and made to reject noise from the side, and will usually sound better than a lav when used properly. Yes it will need to be "boomed" and held very close to the speaker.

Read the stickies section at the beginning of this heading, it is a wealth of info.

Grant
 
Thanks Grant.

I did poke around quite a bit before posting.

Regarding the mixer, if I was considering anything in the $1K+ range for a mixer, I would
simply bring a table and set up my Presonus Studio Live Mixer. Now THAT is a mixer that is a
joy to work with. heehee

After further pondering, I think I will either do exactly that or will use the Panny adaptor on
the HMC as it has dual channels and phantom. I will run an audio test with the Panny adaptor
and then decide. If I go that route, I can throw each mic to seperate sides and break it all out
in Vegas.


I believe the greatest question I face is how to capture this shot.
Industrial yard... forklifts, trucks, venting gases, nearby freeway, etc.




Lapel or shotgun? My brain tells me cardioid lapels and in the end, if I have spend a bit more
for them, I simply will.

I lack confidence in shotgun mics but I don't want my lack of experience to keep me from a
better solution... thus my posting.

Can someone confirm my fear of a shotgun here or correct my thinking?
 
Heartfelt said:
I believe the greatest question I face is how to capture this shot.
Industrial yard... forklifts, trucks, venting gases, nearby freeway, etc.




Lapel or shotgun? My brain tells me cardioid lapels and in the end, if I have spend a bit more
for them, I simply will.

I lack confidence in shotgun mics but I don't want my lack of experience to keep me from a
better solution... thus my posting.
Click to expand...

I've been in countless factories and mills over the years and I find lav's are "usually" the way to go in noisy environments.
I'm not saying exclusively but as a general rule.
While they don't sound as good as an overhead boom mic the fact you can get a lav's just a few inches away from the mouth
helps with the environment noise. Of course the obvious here is to have both and make a decision based on a particular situation.
Any time I can use a boom I will use it over a lav.

You absolutely don't want to use cardioid lav's though in anything television related (unless you're using a loud PA system and need
the increased off axis rejection for feedback issues, but then its a compromise as well). Strictly omni's.
 
It is not even worth considering a shotgun unless you have a dedicated (in both senses of the word) and experienced crew member to position it properly. And even then, in very noisy environments, it is not optimal.

But best (IMHO), would be to use a headset mic, especially in a high-noise environment. The closer you can get the microphone to the talker's mouth, the better the signal-to-noise ratio. Distance is your friend when it is farther from the noise source, and it is your enemy when it is farther from the desired sound source (the talker's mouth). In really severe cases, there are noise-cancelling microphones, but they must be used VERY close, essentially touching the lips of the talker. For example the kinds of microphones used by sports broadcasters, etc.
 
Thanks guys. It won't be as bad as a mill or inside a factory, thank God.

I GREATLY appreciate the affirming on the lapel route and appreciate the mention of your leaning towards omni's. Can you explain why that is the case?
Thanks a mill!
 
Richard Crowley said:
It is not even worth considering a shotgun unless you have a dedicated (in both senses of the word) and experienced crew member to position it properly. And even then, in very noisy environments, it is not optimal.

But best (IMHO), would be to use a headset mic, especially in a high-noise environment. The closer you can get the microphone to the talker's mouth, the better the signal-to-noise ratio. Distance is your friend when it is farther from the noise source, and it is your enemy when it is farther from the desired sound source (the talker's mouth). In really severe cases, there are noise-cancelling microphones, but they must be used VERY close, essentially touching the lips of the talker. For example the kinds of microphones used by sports broadcasters, etc.
Click to expand...
Richard speaking from an audio only situation sure headset mic's can be great. Speaking about audio for picture, other than those sports type shows or the occasional exercise video
most clients would frown upon having a mic attached to someones face.

In a time where most lav's are hidden in clothing to have a big dot right on someones face in a video probably isn't the best solution.
 
Heartfelt said:
Thanks guys. It won't be as bad as a mill or inside a factory, thank God.

I GREATLY appreciate the affirming on the lapel route and appreciate the mention of your leaning towards omni's. Can you explain why that is the case?
Thanks a mill!
Click to expand...

Using a cardioid mic, every head movement (and I'm not talking huge side to side movements) is going to noticeably change the pick up of the microphone.
To limit your on camera talent to "looking directly ahead 100% of the time no exceptions" is a bit unnecessary. Also while its prefered it's not always possible to
place the mic directly in the center of a persons chest with the microphone pointed perfectly upwards.
It's just not an ideal mic for video.

Your best friend for getting sound in the field is "how close you can get ANY mic to the persons mouth".
All things equal a boom will sound best 99.9% of the time, but in a loud situation where you can get a lav half the distance as the boom it will probably win out.

Once again, the best choice is to have both a lav and boom and choose on location.
 
Well, duh.

I should have realized that was your implication. :O)

When I finish this project, buy in on a major scale will happen. At that point, I will likely gear up and will take to heart the recc' on having both lavalieres and a shotgun.

Is there any love for mixers beyond the sound device units, here?
 
OK, wrapped up a bunch of research and sound Country EMW's for $192. I am going to shoot for those. Thanks for the nudge.
 
Headset mics are becoming VERY small, and available in a variety of colors to match the complexion/makeup of the user. I suspect that there are more cases where headset mics are being used on-camera, but we don't notice them because we expect something larger and more visible. I'll bet even Rippie has seen headset mics being worn on camera that he didn't notice.
 
Richard Crowley said:
Headset mics are becoming VERY small, and available in a variety of colors to match the complexion/makeup of the user. I suspect that there are more cases where headset mics are being used on-camera, but we don't notice them because we expect something larger and more visible. I'll bet even Rippie has seen headset mics being worn on camera that he didn't notice.
Click to expand...
I have to disagree with you Richard.
For interview or narrative I couldn't see a single director/producer out there thinking that would be an acceptable way to go.
For a wide shot? possibly. For a medium or close up?
They absolutely have their application but interviews?
 
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