New Light Kit

G

GrahamRobbins

Active member
Hey guys I know there are a few of these type of posts out their but before I commit to something I wanted opinions.

Basically I have a few needs:
-I need a kit that is diverse, can be used for Cinema, Interviews, and chroma key.
-Id like to ideally have 5 lights.
-I'm on a huge budget at the moment, about 1600 bucks.

I am looking to have all my lights tungsten Fresnel's at 3200k

-Ok as for lights I love the look that china balls give off and I under stand they are generally cheap if you use photo floods. However I have never used them, where do I buy them or how to I make them. I would like to purchase or make 2 of these

- I would also like to get 2 cheap Lowel like a 500w Dp light.

-I am not sure what I want for my final light what would you suggest to complement the others.

Essentially this is the kit I was thinking

1. (2)Tungsten china balls (where do I buy them or what do I need to make them)
2. (2)500w Lowel Dp lights
3. (1) light that would make my kit even more diverse mabey a tweenie

So if you guys could give me some help/feedback, or suggestions I would greatly appriciate it. Thank you, sorry if any of these questions make me sound ignorant haha, I just switched my major to cinematography :)


Thanks again,
Graham Robbins
 
You could pick up typical lantern setups for about $20 each, including sockets. They work well and are easy/cheap. That said, if you don't mind spending a bit more, LanternLock is awesome. http://lanternlock.com/ Quite a good system. Pick up a couple of the 24" Mogel versions. It'll be (with a bulb) about $100 each.

Try this out:

2 - 24" LanternLock ($200)
2 - Lowel Omni with BD/bulbs ($450)
1 - Coollights 650w fresnel ($300 with shipping, give or take) ** for about $500 you can get Coollights's CDM 150 which gives off about the same light as a tweenie but is switchable between tungsten and daylight. Worth considering.

That leaves a good $650 for a case, stands, light control, grip, etc).

What do you think?

~~Dave
 
Hi Graham, you are going to get a lot of different advice (most of which will be good advice) and you will need to pick what makes most sense for your situation. If I were you, I would avoid the China balls. They are great for when you have time to set a shot, like in a narrative, but not great for Interviews or Green Screen. Also, f you are going for china balls, CFLs would be a better choice than tungsten (increased light output, lower power consumption and a lot less heat). A small to medium chimera will give you a much more flexible light with less spill, more portability, more durability and 'professional looks'.

I would also tend to lean towards a stock kit that is self contained. Lowell makes decent products, but I recommend Arri's. You can't get much of anything in the way of Arri new for $1600. Used is a different story. For instance, I found a used Arri Softbank IV on CL recently for $1500.

BTW - you can always scrim down a high wattage light, but you can't increase the output of a lower wattage one. I think you might need more than 500 watts for your key. Open face lights offer more output than fresnels but at the expense of control and penumbra.

You also might want to save a few bucks for C-stands, gels, gaff tape, stingers...etc.


Jason
 
If you have the money for professional fixtures, go for it. That said, light is light. While a rugged Arri fresnel provides a nice quality of light, if you can't afford that, a clamp light with a photoflood bulb will be a heckuvalot better than nothing. And you can do things to it to mimic the softness or hardness of the more expensive fresnel. Just keep that in mind.

On a $1600 budget, even if you could find a softbank kit for $1500, that doesn't leave much extra for other necessities, like stingers, gels, misc clamps, bounce materials, etc.

Regarding the china balls for interviews, I have to respectfully disagree with Jason. The lanternlocks I linked set up as easily as a chimera, in fact more so. You may have to blackwrap or skirt the sides, but even so, it's very simple. Also, you can very safely use up to a 500w (possibly more) as they're rigged so that there is no movement of the socket and no danger of it resting up against the paper lantern.

Cheapo lights in the hands of a good DP can look phenomenal. Don't forget that.

Good luck.

~~Dave
 
Davdo said:
Cheapo lights in the hands of a good DP can look phenomenal. Don't forget that.
Click to expand...

I'll qualify this by saying that cheap light only looks good when they can be properly controlled. Even the best DP can't do much if they don't have the grip gears to properly shape the light. Professional fixtures provide just that and make your life easier as a whole. I would definitely look into used Arri but I don't like buying light as a kit as there are inevitably things that I will never use. For $1600 you can get two or three used Arri fresnels and a Cool Light flourescent with stands and case. I have two of the CL fixtures and they're excellent for when you need a soft source without having to go to softboxes which can be time-consuming to set up.
 
Awesome thanks for the responses, I was kind of taking the stance of Dave on this one, Id like to steer clear of buying a premade kit, I generally learn more by doing and I think getting all the pieces of a kit together on my budget will teach me more about lighting.

I am still a little unclear on the china ball thing, if I used CFLs would my color temp be off from all the tungsten lights? Also if I were to get some china balls, from film tools, how many bulbs can I put in them, I am a bit confused with that?

Id still like some other opionions on this two I know there are more out there. Thanks guys!

Graham Robbins
 
CFLs come in different color temperatures. I'll defer to others as I only occasionally use china balls in Narrative work because of the setup time and extra flagging required to keep the light off walls. When ever I am doing interviews / doc / chroma work, I tend use a professional setup.


Jason
 
Amen to most of the above.

You can achieve the same lighting effect in many different ways, and most have their pluses and minuses, but put me in the China-balls-are-useful camp. They're inexpensive too. As a gaffer, I've worked with a DP who uses them constantly and I put great stock in what David Mullen, ASC says, which is that he uses them all the time.

They are just a nice, soft source, of course, so up close they make faces look dreamy and smooth, one or more over a table gives that soft Hollywood look we all like that's usually from a chicken coop, and hung above a crowd they're like space lights -- they bring up the general level of illumination without harsh shadows and the obviousness of multiple sources.

The LanternLocks are really nice. They feel safer and more secure than just winding the power cable around the end of a gobo arm and pinning it there with a Pony clamp, but that works too.

They have a ring around the top that you use to pin some Duvetyne or black wrap on to easily skirt the lantern and control spill. Some gaffers use heat resistant paint and paint half or a little more of the lantern black. I haven't done that but I bet it works great. With a LanternLock you could hold the lantern in different positions and with the opaque side you'd have good control over where the light went and where it didn't go.

I think you can get regular medium or Mogul sockets in some sizes, so think about that. Eighteen and 24" sizes are good and the LanternLock paper lanterns may have different size openings from the ones you might buy at Ikea or somewhere.

I'd add to your kit that I think you need some small Peppers or something to use as hair lights, kickers, specials or even background lights. Small LTM or Arri fresnels are great for this but I am fond of Lowel Pros with 250W lamps. Be sure to get barn doors. They are useful with clear or frosted lenses and they are sort of like fresnels, being focusable, in this case by moving the globe in and out WRT the reflector. They don't quite have the smooth, even field of a fresnel but they are terrif for placing a patch of light right where you want it and they are small and light. You can arm one out 40" from a stand that's out of frame for a hair light and not worry that your 650W fresnel is going to tip over the stand or bend something. Snoot one up with some black wrap and you can illuminate one hand on a piano keyboard with the rest of the frame black from fifteen feet away.

Dimmers are helpful on your tungsten lights to cut the quantity of light, but, of course, they shift the color temperature to warmer as you dim down. You might not mind this a bit for any light that is not the key. If you need to decrease the intensity without a color shift and don't have wire scrims, which are a touch pricey, just get some 0.3 neutral density gel. You can use more than one at a time and it works great.

Remember, as suggested by others, lighting is as much about shadows as it is about illumination and where the light does not go is as important as where it does. So be sure to get some 2'x3' flags and stands, arms, grip heads and sand bags. If you don't have anyone to impress -- nobody is paying you -- you can start with 2'X3' foam core that is black on one side and white on the other. Cut a 1/2" slot that's 2 1/2" long out of the center of one of the short sides and you can lightly clamp the foamcore in a grip head for a very serviceable flag or bounce. Get the Xacto out, sketch a pattern and make a good little cucaloris.

If you get Chimeras or some knockoff softbox, be sure to get eggcrate for the front (it can be spendy). It's like a whole bunch of little barn doors and gives a fair bit of control over where the light goes. Flagging a large softbox is hard and surprisingly ineffective.

The big deal in lighting is less about the instruments you use and more about your artistry in placing light where it makes sense and feels right while placing shadows where it makes the light interesting and the dark either unimportant or mysterious.

Good luck, have fun, watch a lot of movies and as you go through your day stop and notice what light and shadow are constantly doing. Make mental notes. Then, when you get that night living room scene where the guy is about to kiss the girl, or slit her throat, you'll know just what to do.
 
Thanks so much for the advice guys, I have a question can I fit more bulbs in a lantern and how do I go about this, so I can get more wattage out of each lantern.
 
I'll add this since I shoot a lot of interviews...

If you can go for a fluorescent key DO IT. You'll be able to get the fixture closer to the talent, you'll draw less power, and they will be more comfortable. I bought a Lowel Rifa 88 with the tungsten and flo fixtures and wouldn't trade it for the WORLD.

I've got some CFLs in silver work lights, I've got a Mole 2k, I've got Lowel DP lights, Tota, Home Depot work lights, etc. The honest truth is that once you bounce a light off a piece of foamcore, or push it through a silk, the quality of light is essentially indistinguishable. A $50 light looks like a $500 light.

I chose the Lowel Kit I did because it came with 2 DP lights and a Tota. Along with gels, umbrellas, stands, barn doors, etc. And a nice hard case. I cannot tell you how much that stuff has come in handy as I've learned to light better. My general interview kit is 2 lights. The Rifa and something giving me help in the background. Occasionally, I'll add hair light. My fill is usually foamcore. This keeps the talent cool and comfy with only one flourescent near them and a piece of foamcore. Trying to do a DP and an Omni plus a hair light in an average sized room will have them sweating in 5 minutes flat.

And while I agree with others about being able to scrim down stronger lights, I generally light my interviews at F2 - F2.8. Any brighter and it just makes them uncomfortable, and the room gets hot too fast. Plus I get way too much DOF shooting at F4 or F5.6.

Buy yourself 2-3 good C-Stands (I recommend Matthews), some clamps, get some fabric at the fabric store, get some foamcore at Office Depot (or Gatorboard if you want to splurge), and start learning. I use the silver worklights with a CFL in them for hair lights or accent lights. They're cheap, don't get hot, and look surprisingly nice. I did an interview exclusively with those lights on one occasion.
 
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