New $2000 rebate on C300/C300PL

$2,000 rebate? That's great news for everyone! Good job Canon. The C300 is very popular in Texas. People rent this camera a lot shooting 50 mbps on CF cards instead of SD Cards is attractive. The camera was always perceived by me and my peers as being over priced, but now ... we're all kind of like ... hmmm should we own or rent?

Announcing this rebate 2 months before NAB is very smart. I think that we're looking at one of the best years ever in 2013. More 2K, 4K & Raw camera options than we've ever seen. And more great cameras in the sub $10,000 price range than ever before.

It's still not too late for Panasonic AF100 style camera recording to P2 Cards or mini P2 cards that can compete with the C300.
 
starcentral said:
Simon I concur with you and I too found Noel's reply off the wall. This whole forum is full of opinions, at least in your case you actually backed it up with some data, as did I in my post where I also "expressed my opinion" that the C300 is not in the same league as the F5/F55.

I would have been offended by that post if it were me too.
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Thanks Dennis :)

Like you pointed out, I backed up my opinion with data, nothing more, nothing less - I have no ulterior-motive, nor am I trying to peddle or sell anything to anyone here, nor do I work for Sony or any other camera company, just stating my opinion.

And I agree with you, I'd put the C300 in the same-league as the F3. Personally, I've shot with both the C300 and the F3, and prefer the F3 - BUT only when shooting in 10bit S-Log. Otherwise, I prefer the C300.

If we're going on specs, the C300, IN MY OPINION, doesn't come close to the F5. I mean, 8bit 50Mbp 1080P with 12 stops of DR (and no 1080 60P) vs 10bit 100/220/440/880Mbps 2K at up to 120FPS with 14 stops of DR? For virtually the same money? Come on, give me a break.
 
Simon Shasha said:
Of course in my opinion - I am simply just stating my opinion - why on Earth are you stating the obvious, or even pointing that out??
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Wasnt stated as such and this being an internet forum I've found time and time again that words can be misconstrued as the clarity is not there as with a real world discussion. My point is if someone states their opinion, they should simply say IMO.

Simon Shasha said:
That last line I wrote corresponds to the rest of what I wrote - and that was comparing the F5 specs to the C300's specs...

And I was keeping the "C300 in the discussion" because I was comparing the F5 to the C300...

What on Earth was the point of your reply??
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This part wasn't relative to you.

Simon Shasha said:
And this isn't in the "C300 forum", it's in the "Industry News & Information" forum.
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Apologies - I meant to say C300 relative thread.

Noel Evans said:
In your opinion.
Anyone is free to state there opinions, where I have trouble is when people state an opinion as fact.
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Not 100% sure where the issue lies? Mine was simply a commentary on something I see very often. What did I miss? But I'll sign off with, if someone was offended, I apologise as it certainly wasnt my intention. In my defence I'll ask that you take a look into where I'm coming from - as a moderator I look at many threads many where I don;t have a personal interest and see these things everywhere, more so than the average member probably - as a moderator, I try to encourage people to have robust discussions. My intention here.
 
keith.uk said:
It's difficult to see it as coincidental that this rebate comes just when the F5 is released. Something must be driving Canon to reduce the price. If not the release of the F5, then what?
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I'd say that's a reasonably fair call, but I think maybe with NAB around the corner as well, the fact the C300 has been on the market for 12 months are other factors which help the decision. Good for everyone though.
 
starcentral said:
yes and I also didn't mean what I said as an insult. In fact more often than not I am recommending Canon for a lot of the type of work people seem to be doing. For hardcore cinema / raw stuff the choice has already been pretty clear since 2007. Sony's late entry in that arena by no means is a "game changer". The only things the F5/F55 have up on RED for digital cinema are:

• F5/F55 is 16-bit linear raw, RED is only 12-bit linear raw.
• F5/F55 offers 4 recording formats (HD, XAVC, SR Codec and RAW), RED is raw only.
• F5/F55 can shoot clean 6400 ISO, RED at 1600 is pushing it.
• Lastly all these points make F5/F55 much more versatile.
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Actually, RED is not Linear Raw. Only the Sony is. The RED is Non linear. Essentially what that means is the RAW from the F5/55 is already color temprature baked. The F65 is like this too. Not that it really matter cause the 16bit file is so big. In RED world, color is sorted from the source RAW data. In sony land, Color is sort of chosen when you shoot.

Truth be told, my buddy tom Wong an IATSE Local 600 DIT, did the grading for a F65 project recorded in HDcamSR in camera, and he pushed that signal all over the board, and it looked amazing. But there is a difference in that its better not to shoot a Sony Raw camera with the thinking that color temperature doesnt matter and is meta data. Its not. Try to get it close as you can and you will get spectacular results.

that shot from the F65 is at the 2:50 mark.
 
starcentral said:
yes and I also didn't mean what I said as an insult. In fact more often than not I am recommending Canon for a lot of the type of work people seem to be doing. For hardcore cinema / raw stuff the choice has already been pretty clear since 2007. Sony's late entry in that arena by no means is a "game changer". The only things the F5/F55 have up on RED for digital cinema are:

• F5/F55 is 16-bit linear raw, RED is only 12-bit linear raw.
• F5/F55 offers 4 recording formats (HD, XAVC, SR Codec and RAW), RED is raw only.
• F5/F55 can shoot clean 6400 ISO, RED at 1600 is pushing it.
• Lastly all these points make F5/F55 much more versatile.
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Doesn't the F55 have a global shutter. Isn't the RED chip still rolling shutter?
 
TimurCivan said:
Actually, RED is not Linear Raw. Only the Sony is. The RED is Non linear...
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Not sure how you mean Red is not linear raw when it captures compressed bayer data from the sensor (which makes it linear) and you get 12-bit linear on output from REDCODE RAW - which allows gamma and color space to be set in post production?

Perhaps I am missing something?


Those images @ 2:50 look awesome....


C-Mac said:
Doesn't the F55 have a global shutter. Isn't the RED chip still rolling shutter?
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Yes that is correct. I missed that.. lol
 
starcentral said:
Not sure how you mean Red is not linear raw when it captures compressed bayer data from the sensor (which makes it linear) and you get 12-bit linear on output from REDCODE RAW - which allows gamma and color space to be set in post production?

Perhaps I am missing something?


Those images @ 2:50 look awesome....




Yes that is correct. I missed that.. lol
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Meaning the linear, only exists after the camera, or rocket card turns the values from the photo sites into an rgb image after the fact.

The Sony does it a bit differently. Canon also handles raw in a similar manner.

Arri raw, r3d and phantom raw, function in the unprocessed space.
 
We had gone through considerable amount of vitriol against the C300 when it was announced. However, silently this camera has been announced by a majority of professionals in broadcast, narratives as well as other genres. I am surprised that still we are discussing talking about 8 bit rather than its implementation.

If the image looks good to my eye as well as to the client
and if the codec has been broadcast approved
and can be edited faster without intensive computing power
and if all this comes in a small package then I am sold.
The C300 ticks all these boxes.

While filming wildlife, I am able to take the shots immediately into the timeline in a Macbook Pro. I know what works and what doesn't. And I keep on building it up till I know I have sufficient footage and a storyline for my editor later to finetune.

If the F5 or F55 with its 2k/4K raw implementation clicks all these variables like the C300 does, then I can consider it. I think there would be many who share this opinion. I would have loved a firmware update to give 50p at 1080 announced during NAB. That would help Canon's image.

It is always exciting when a new camera comes and disrupts the status quo. Competition is good for customers. Embrace it.
 
starcentral said:
yes true in that sense but the C300 will never record 4k, so I'd put the F3 more in the same league as the c300 than the F5/F55.

On a side note, Jim I love filmtools website so much - it is dangerous for me anytime I visit it so I try and stay away!!!!
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Try living about 2 miles away...
 
TimurCivan said:
Meaning the linear, only exists after the camera, or rocket card turns the values from the photo sites into an rgb image after the fact.
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Linear usually means that the image does not have a gamma applied. That is gamma = 1.0. So when you tell someone that we are compositing using a linear workflow, it's easy to interpret it. A camera that shoots linearly is shooting with a gamma of 1.0. All raw is linear, there is no such thing as a "non-linear" raw.
 
Simon Shasha said:
Of course in my opinion - I am simply just stating my opinion - why on Earth are you stating the obvious, or even pointing that out??

That last line I wrote corresponds to the rest of what I wrote - and that was comparing the F5 specs to the C300's specs...
and this isn't in the "C300 forum", it's in the "Industry News & Information" forum.
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This is a C300 rebate thread so I think it's right to keep it in that discussion, not a place to re-hash old posts on one's opinion on whether the camera is over priced or the specs are not up to one's expectations. I personally am getting tired of reading the same complaints from the same people in multiple threads....it diminishes the value of that poster's opinion.....So here is my now diminished repeat: I and others have repeatedly pointed out that in case of the C300, don't look at the spec sheet, look at the screen....it's why it is the hottest rental here in town, shooting everything from features to web work. As for the F5, I like the camera but some of the features that were supposed to be on the camera when it ships, have been delayed to the end of the year.

Jim Martin
Filmtools.com

ps. Thanks for all the kind words about our site & store!
 
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maarek said:
Linear usually means that the image does not have a gamma applied. That is gamma = 1.0. So when you tell someone that we are compositing using a linear workflow, it's easy to interpret it. A camera that shoots linearly is shooting with a gamma of 1.0. All raw is linear, there is no such thing as a "non-linear" raw.
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Yes not to derail the thread, but for any clarification when earlier I said linear raw that is exactly what I meant, ie. there is no gamma applied since it is done in post. I think what Timur meant was that Sony and Canon bakes some info like color balance into their raw format, but that still makes it a linear format with linear gamma, it is just a little more "processed" than "unprocessed" like on RED. RAW normally implies non-bayered sensor data and non-processed. So the data is right off the sensor, but by that definition arguabley even RED is slightly processed since it is lightly compressed.

More and more cameras seem to be going the linear gamma route since it allows the ultimate in flexibility in post; ie. BMC, D16, F5/F55...

Better upgrade all your hard drives!
 
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