Need Some Advice Purchasing The Right Audio Gear With A Budget [PULLING MY HAIR OUT]

[Reelkid]

Hi everyone

I'm aiming to shoot a documentary soon and various short-films throughout the year but typically I made the mistake spending all my money on a camera (Panny GH2) and lenses without considering sound gear...until now.
After a month of saving, working two jobs I finally have a remotely decent budget to buy some audio equipment. Ideally I just need a shot-gun mic and an audio recorder but after extensive research I'm beginning to tear my hair out.

Here's the business: I've got a budget of around £500-600
I was going to buy a used zoom h4n/tescam dr40 and a new Rode NTG2 along with the boom pole, deadcat, shockmount etc
Though I've been told that the zoom/tascam with the Rode NTG2 is a bad combo as the audio recorders pre-amps just aren't up to scratch to provide decent audio.
So here's what I ask:
Does anyone have any great recommendations of a solid (but within budget) audio set-up I can use in my shorts? (that actually works with little setbacks?)

Thanks I'd really appreciate responses

 

[Noiz2]

So in US your talking under $1000... THat is tight.

You also need to ad some cables and headphones in that mix.

Since you are going to need a sound person to handle the mic etc while you are shooting why not see if someone wants to partner up on your team and they can kick in a bit. Unless you are really good friends who like working together I would not jointly make a purchase but maybe they buy the mic and you then get a bit more to spend on a recorder.

Personally I don't like the handheld recorders for production work because of there tiny size and small display etc. In your case though it might be a good choice since you can use the recorders mics to do Ambience and FX recording. I like the Tascam a LOT better than the Zoom. I haven't used it with a NTG2 so not sure if it has the same gain issues.

The NTG2 is probably the best choice in your budget though the Audio-Technica AT875R might also be an option. Which is cheaper really depends on what things cost where you are. Here the AT is actually cheaper. It will require phantom power so you will take a bit of a hit on battery life. As long as your interiors are pretty dead both should be OK for interiors. Another option is to just go with a hyper cardioid and plan on being closer to the subject. The down side is you do have to get closer than you would with a shotgun, the upside is that it's a lot shorter and you won't have problems on interiors getting "reverby" (unless they actually are "reverby").

Depending on what you are actually doing (as in how professional do you really need to be) you might actually get decent results from the VideoMic pro going into a recorder or for run and gun down and dirty mounted on the camera.

Camera mounting is not the best option almost always but I have seen some work done that way for streight interview doc pieces that were quite acceptable. I would probably still record to the DR40 and not the generally junky internal sound of the camera even if the mic is camera mounted.

The long term upside is that even when you get a decent mic on a boom you can still use the VMP on the camera to get you a much cleaner track to sync to.

 

[Rick R]

Having a few good quality wired and wireless lavs would be a prudent investment. A camera mounted mic, no matter what the cost and type, is normally only good for nat sound (ambient b-roll and such)

 

[TheDingo]

Given you have a tight budget, here is what I would look at...

Tascam DR-40 ( forget the Zoom H4n, it's noisier than the DR-40, does not accept LINE level audio signals, and has worse built-in mics )

My first pick for a shotgun mic would be the Sennheiser MKE600, as it sounds better than the Rode NTG-2 and works better indoors in small environments. ( I sold my NTG-2 after buying the MKE600 )

My second pick for shotgun mic would be the Audio-Technica AT-875, which costs less, sounds better than the NTG-2 in the upper ranges ( you need to boost the lower end in post, as the AT875 is a bit "thin" with lower frequencies ), and also works well indoors in small spaces.

Also make sure you budget for a good shockmount and wind-protection for your mic if you plan to record outside.

 

[Rick R]

"Tascam DR-40 ( forget the Zoom H4n, it's noisier than the DR-40, does not accept LINE level audio signals, and has worse built-in mics )"
> The H4n does except line level.. but it is unbalanced at -10dB (consumer level) via 1/4" TS connectors, which still get routed though the H4n's..less than stellar.. preamps.
Otherwise, I agree.

 

[TheDingo]

The H4n does except line level.. but it is unbalanced at -10dB (consumer level) via 1/4" TS connectors

...But how many mixers output consumer line level?

Usually this is marked as tape-out along side professional level line-out connections.

 

[ggrantly]

I mostly concur with the above except for the recorder. I have recommended the DR680, not because you need a lot of channels, but because it has much more gain available in the preamps than the really cheap models and is bag friendly if you need it. This will allow you to use less expensive mics with less gain. So here is a kit with prices, mostly from BH. With any economy kit, there will be compromises, but the following is pretty functional.

439 DR680
155 AT875
179 K-Tek Avalon Aluminum Pole
59 Rode WS6 Windshield
62 Rycote INV-HG Suspension
96 OST lav
40 2-3 Cables
99 Sony 7506 Headphones

Total USD $1129

This might be slightly over your budget, but each item on the list is a decent beginning to a much better kit. Each item has quality on its own merit, but is still a thrifty choice. Buying used would help and of course on your side of the pond, there might be brand alternatives. I hate to buy something so cheap that you will only want to throw it away as soon as possible, that would not be the case with these choices.

I love spending other peoples money….

Grant

 

[j1clark@ucsd.edu]

Given you have a tight budget, here is what I would look at...

Tascam DR-40 ( forget the Zoom H4n, it's noisier than the DR-40, does not accept LINE level audio signals, and has worse built-in mics )

I recently had the opportunity to record with a DR100, and there was a thumbwheel that could adjust the input level 'in real time'. From the manual for the DR-40 it seems it has a +/- button.

Is this 'easy to use' to control the levels in actual use?

 

[TheDingo]

I recently had the opportunity to record with a DR100, and there was a thumbwheel that could adjust the input level 'in real time'. From the manual for the DR-40 it seems it has a +/- button. Is this 'easy to use' to control the levels in actual use?

No, the DR100 is much better if you want to "ride" the audio levels while recording. I prefer to use a mixer in front of the recorder if possible, because they are better made for this sort of thing. It's probably not in your budget, but the Fostex DC-R302 mixer/recorder is pretty good as a low cost audio solution, and it has proper mixer pots to adjust gain levels while recording. ( I use it bolted on to the bottom of my DSLR rig, but it can also be used in an audio bag. )