Need Help with Lighting Kit

R

Rage4545

New member
Hey all,

I'm making a short film and need advice on a lighting kit and what I would be able to do with it. All of my shorts up to this point have been just point and shoot with only natural lighting, so i'm completely new to video lighting, though I have a small amount of stage lighting experience.

This short film is supposed to look very dream-like and surreal, so i'm planning on mixing two distinct looks: a very warm, comforting orange look for some scenes, and an extremely bleached out, cold-blue look for other scenes (similar to the minority report effect). I want to capitalize on the contrast between those two looks.

Now I know how to make a decent go at these two looks through my DVX-100b and through color correction in AAF 7.0 (though tips on that are definately welcome). So, my questions are:

1) Can I get a lighting kit that will help me achieve these looks for under $500? If that budget is too low, what am I going to have to pay to get a decent lighting kit that will work for microbudget indie filmmaking? And failing that, does anyone have any specific DIY tips?

2) Which lights are the most flexible (ie. can be relatively useful both indoors and outdoors)?

3) And how can I use that kit to achieve those looks? (ie. How would I use lighting to create a CU silhouette effect of an actors face with the camera to the side of the actor? I assume I just need to blast a light into or almost into the camera from behind the actor.)

4) Is it better to try and achieve the colors I want through gels or through color correction in post? Or should I combine them?

5) I know there is a stickied thread about some good lighting books for beginners, but I was hoping if anyone knew of any books that take you a lot deeper than that. I pretty much need a crash course in lighting, so if anyone has any books like that that they have found very helpful, it would be a huge help!


Any help is greatly appreciated! And feel free to throw any other suggestions out too, if you'd like!
 
First, don't try coloring your shots with gels , or filters, and whatever else, do it in post. Once you have added that color to your image, you're stuck. Always do that in post.
Ok, about the lighting, here is the best tip I can give you. Get the "lighting for film" dvd by Foster Denker, available at Birns & Sawyer, get volumes 1 and 2. (it might be titled "lighting for emerging filmmakers" or something like that) Trust me, it's the best crash coarse you are going to get, and a very thorough one.
As for the actual light, if all you can get right now is one light, get the Arri 650 or bigger. You will have more options and will have the most control over the light.
Make sure you buy the barn doors with it (and scrims). You will be able to use diffusion gels, and reflectors of all sorts to get the most out of one light.
If you get those dvd's you will understand this well, as well as shortcuts if your budget won't get you the Arri right away.
I have to tell you that in the long run, you are much better off getting good professional gear. First it really ends up being less expensive. I have seen many tyring to cut corners and using cheep stuff to get by, and it ends up costing them more. Usually of someone is really into the the whole film making thing and is not going to abandon it for another "hobby" sometime soon, they will usually end up getting that light they always wanted. If they would have gotten the right light, in the first place, it would have cost them much less.
Second, it really has an effect on your whole attitude about what you do as a filmmaker and ultimately the quality of your work. I can't tell you how much easier and much more fun it is when you actually have the right tool for the right job. (man have I got stories!) I don't know exactly how to explain it, but when you bite the bullet, stretch that dollar, and get the equipment that you normally wouldn't have gotten, I think your mind says "we're serious now!" and there is a whole commitment thing that goes on in your head. I will sure show up in what you do. I know it worked that way with me, it made all the difference in the world.
Nah!... it's really about the TOYS!! a guy's gotta have TOYS!!!

1174186819.jpg
 
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No question that your tools and their level of functionality and usability have an affect on your attitude.

I think the normal progression is that people wade in a bit at a time to see if its for them. So they go through the DIY and worklight phase for a while and if they still like it after all this then they start investing in more pro gear especially lighting when they see how important lighting really is--perhaps even more so than the camera in many cases.
 
Man, I know about that all too well! and I have a good friend to blame for it.
You know, I just remembered when I had spent more on sound gear than I had on my first camera. That was before I ever even got into the lighting.
You will understand how my friend is to blame. He gave me some advice that started a huge snowball rolling. He said that sound was really more important than the picture. He told me that a people will always watch a bad image but will never listen to bad sound. What makes a cheap film look cheep, is the sound.
He kept telling me that "whatever you do, don't scrimp on your sound, get the best equipment that you can afford"
The problem is that, he was absolutely right.
 
I disagree with corona. Getting one light on the edge of your budget will not serve you better than putting together some cheaper more indie solutions. A nice fresnel is great, but you're doing yourself a disservice if that's all you can afford. Get some cheaper used stuff off ebay, like maybe some Lowel Omni and Pro lights, or go the home-built and/or worklight route. Search this forum... every other thread in this section is about super-cheap lighting solutions, and there are some great ideas out there. Get some gels & diffusion to go with that, and experiment away. There's a lot you can do with that. When you're ready to spend some more money and buy a fancier kit, sell the stuff back on ebay (from probably a miniscule loss), and get yourself thousands of dollars of Moles and Arris and Dedos and Kinos.

Secondly, I'm a big fan of getting the look as close as possible to what you want in-camera. This is particularly true when shooting on DV, since there isn't a lot of information left in the codec should you want to do severe color-correction later (not so much the case with better codecs like DVCPro on the HVX). Certainly err on the side of caution when going for extreme looks in camera, but as a rule of thumb I try to get it as close to the final product as I can. That just makes any subsequent color correction to get it there that much easier and subtler.

I do agree with corona a bit though-- the sound thing is very true. 90% of indie productions, people get annoyed with the production-quality of the sound long before the images. Don't think b/c you make "moving pictures" that you can spend any less time, money, or effort on the audio side of the equation and get away with it.

-Kevin
 
No argument about sound either. I had a recording studio long before I ever got any video equipment so I already understood (and acquired) what I needed in that area before I bought my first video camera.
 
Please, trust me on this one. I could do a much better job of lighting something and lighting it very well with just one, very controllable light. Than I could with a few cheapies.
Take my advice, if you get those dvd's I mentioned, you will be able to do the same. The most important and effective tool in your lighting arsenal, is your knowledge and skill that you develope about lighting.
I don't disagree with Hemo, that's just another approach. But I've seen the work that comes from people taking that approach. It's just not the way I choose to do things. (depending on the budget, buy used, find bargains, whatever you have to do, but get the right equipment and get quality equipment)
 
Have you considered hiring a good gaffer or creative key grip? I adhere to the old adage that it's the carpenter not the tools. A good gaffer can do wonders with two lights and some reflectors and artboard.

My only comment is on the gel's. Corona is right to not (overly) light for color on set. But if you are going low-budget route, do your best to gel the lights to get the color on them to match. For the most part this will mean getting CTB (blue) gels (or color corrected bulbs) for tungsten lights and fixtures. I also agree with the comment to save up and buy the best lights you can possibly afford.
 
Hey guys, thanks for all the suggestions!

With the price tags being thrown around and how soon I need to have lighting, I think I'm just going to have to settle for renting some equipment. I live in the Austin, TX area and I've found a few stores that rent out, but just as before, I have no idea what kits would be the best.

This is the store I will most likely use: http://www.precision-camera.com

If anyone has any suggestions on a feasible kit to rent, I would really appreciate it!
 
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I have read this post with interest. I am relatively new to lighting but have been getting to grips with it more at home, through study and on jobs etc Have been going down the home depot route and am at the stage where I can begin to appreciate where corona is coming from.

First - turning up for a job with home depot lights is not ideal.

Its taken a while but I now realise it is worth paying a few hundred dollars for a good light.. I think it takes time to psychologically get there as my experience was it is first all about the camera, then the mike - then 3rd the lights.

If it is of any use - my current shopping list for 3 general indoor lights that would help what I do, would be:

arri fresnel 650
arri fresnel 300 ( I only say 300 qfter watching elitevideo dvd actually)
800w redhead + softbox

I will be happy to carry on using cheap halogen home depot lights for lighting backgrounds/ background objects

Anyway I am quite new to this but thats my take on it.

I have one question for corona: when you say "don't try coloring your shots with gels , or filters, and whatever else, do it in post" I take it you mean on the subject - its going to be cool to use gels for background lighting but keep the main subject 'clean'?
 
You are right, Keep the subject lit very nicely, and clean. I've seen footage where someone was tyring to get a certain "look" by doing all sorts of goofy stuff with gels and when it came to the edit, they were stuck with it. Also the use of colored filters on the camera, once you have colored it, you're stuck.
Recently on a documentary where the subjects for an interview were brought in from all around the country, a DP thought he'd get real artsy and use these horrid blue filters on the camera, trying to achieve, who knows what. Well, when I saw the footage, it was pretty much unsalvagable. I don't have to tell you how expensive it is to re shoot this. Which we did. My point is that when you do something like that, if it can be done in post, don't try doing it otherwise, or you're stuck, period.
Hey, nice pick on your lights. Seeing the range that you are working with, you might look at the Arri 150. and get a speed ring for the softbox to use it with your larger Arri's. (instead of the 800w) Have you seen the Spiderlights? great set for the money.
I'm going to attach a pic of that documentary that was reshot, I used only 2 lights for this. There is a 36" softbox as key, and an Arri 150 as a rimlight. I used a gold bounceboard to take care of the fill. Very clean and nicely lit.
Also I highly recommend getting the dvd from Birns & Sawyer: Lighting for Emerging Filmmakers, by Foster Denker. Get both vols. 1 and 2. That will be the best tool in your inventory. It is the best course on lighting I've seen, and his approach is golden, and right on target. He influenced the way I light more than anyone else. Contact me if you need some more info on that.
http://www.dvxuser6.com/uploaded/7292/1174485894.jpg
 
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nice

Corona - personally I am thinking kit should be:

650 arri fresnel
300 arri fresnel
150 arri fresnel

I will have 800w redhead and softbox with speed ring to add to the mix ( plus a skips worth of home depot lights :-)

On the lighting DVDs I get the very clear impression these 2 DVDs are very good.

I have dropped publisher an email because am in Uk and tried to order them both, but postage came up as $95.00! To send 2 dvds in the post to UK? That is kind of wacky - so have pointed out that it only has to cost few dollars to send 2 dvds to UK and I would love to buy the dvds :-) - we shall see...

anyway thanks for feeback

ps: spider lights?
 
Hi Mixer,
If you have trouble getting the dvd's, you can email me and I will do what I can to get them to you. Yeah, something sounds wrong about the high cost of that postage. That's more than the cost of the dvd.
Good choice for lights.
I sometimes get a bigger light and just use a lower wattage bulb in it. Thsi makes for a bit more versatility.
d.corona@sbcglobal.net
Good luck!
 
mixer28 said:
...but postage came up as $95.00! To send 2 dvds in the post...
Click to expand...

Definitely not right. I just sent a copy of my Cool Lights DVD to a customer in Australia by Global Priority Mail for $12.00. Just tell him to give you a quote via global priority mail and one for global ems express too. That way he knows your knowledgeable. If the quote he gave you was for UPS, then its very credible that it cost that much. I never use UPS to send outside the USA--they are prohibitively expensive.
 
Cool lights - I totally agree. It should be about $15.00 max

corona - If you could do anything to assist in getting the DVDs I would totally appreciate it - have emailed Birns & Sawyer a couple of times and got no response.
 
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