need help with first lighting kit purchase

B

blazingoat

Carbonite Member
Hey everyone!

I got my DVX about 3 months ago and I'm now looking to buy my first lighting kit. I don't know that much about lighting equipment so I need some help in deciding what to get.

I'm going to be doing a number of different things with my setup including reality tv shows, music videos and short films. (I'm also going to be using the kit for a low budget DVX feature in the spring).

Now, in the past i've used some 650w arris and 1000w red heads that my school had, also rented some similar arri kits and hmi's for other projects. Also used chimeras with these lights.

Beyond that, I don't have experience with much else. What I have to spend is about $2500cnd.

My requirments for the lights are this:

Need to be somewhat light and portable.
Durable. Nothing cheap. I'd rather have 2 good reliable lights than 3 crappy ones.
I definatley want a large soft box.

Again, these will be used for simple interview setups as well as dramatic films etc. I'm thinking i want at least 4 or 5 lights.

Also, I want to buy from DVshop in Toronto. Great store, they carry and promote the lowel line. What are everyone's thoughts on this brand?

Here's a link to the kits they have:

http://www.dvshop.ca/lighting/lowelkits.html

I was thinking about the DV creator 55 kit.

Includes:
1 Rifa-lite 55 (LC-55)
1 500w, 120v lamp (EHC)
1 Pro-light (P1-10)
1 Pro-light 4-way Barndoors (iP-20)
1 250w, 120v lamp (GCA)
1 Omni-light (O1-10)
1 Omni-light 4-way Barndoors (O1-20)
1 500w, 120v lamp (FTK)
1 Tota-light (T1-10)
1 750w, 120v lamp (EMD)
3 Uni TO Stands (UN-55)
1 KS Jr. Stand (DT-33)
1 Tota-frame (T1-20)
1 Assorted Gels (T1-78)
1 Pro & i Gel Frame (iP40)
1 iP Assorted Gels (iP-78)
1 Flexi-shaft pkg (2) (T1-50)
1 Tota-flag (T1-52)
1 Tota-brella (T1-25)
1 T/O Lampak (TO-61)
1 DP/Tota Lampak (DT-61)
1 TO-83 Case

$2199cnd

I'm worried about the tota lights though, I've never used a light that looked like that before. only ones that look like the circular ones with barndoors. What's the deal with these tota lights and the umbrellas?

Anyone have any other suggestions for what I should get?
thanks!
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

What does an Arri Softbank IV kit go for in Canada?  EVS sells it for about $2595 here in the US, and that'd be just about everything you're asking for, all top-of-the-line gear, etc.

Lowel stuff is very small, and it's not like normal "pro" gear, but it's not bad, it's just a totally different way of doing things.  And it's not cheap for what it is, it's just small.  If you want a very small-size kit for easy portability, Lowels have some definite advantages. Briteks are very cheap, but perhaps not rugged. I wouldn't call Lowel gear "rugged" either, though, but it does seem reasonably solid.

I believe Walter Graff uses Lowels in his kit, and that guy can light anything and has some very resourceful articles on his site.

The other thing to consider is used -- you can save quite a bit by buying used, which you can put towards buying higher-quality gear, but then it becomes incumbent upon you to know what you want so you can piece together the right kind of kit...
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

Too much sh*t for you in that kit. It's the equivalent of five 18 year olds getting naked and attacking you when you are fourteen. You're starting out. Did you learn how to ride a bike first or did you buy a race car?  Buy three simple open face fixtures with barn doors and a few pieces of 216 diffusion and learn how to make mistakes. You wouldn't know what to do with half that stuff and it would only end up being a waste of money. I don't use all that crap because it doesn't make me better at what I do.

I was taught by the gaffers who lit films in the 40 and 50s. They used to light three sets with four lights and made them look better than guys today who use a 10 ton truck full of lights.

You can't paint with ten brushes in your hand and to learn lighting you need to learn how to do things simple, not complex. 90% the guys who own all the crap made are lousy at lighting because no one ever taught them how to look at life like an artist. I read about how some folks talk about how good the light banks like Chimera, Rifa,etc are. That's not necessarily because they are good, just that the folks lighting couldn't do the same effect without one when in reality it's easy. If only they learned that first, they'd be a better artist. An artist can light something with a flashlight and make it look better than guys who own 10,000 worth of lighting equipment. It's never equipment that makes you good at what you do. Maybe that is why DVX100s now gather dust all over the world.  

Somewhere, someone made up the myth that a camera was going to make you a filmmaker and a light kit was going to make you Gordon Willis, who by the way used very few fixtures on the Godfather and many other great films he is known for. Funny, he is one of the most respected DPs that ever lived. In fact as I think about what are considered the top ten looking films of all time, one thing was clearly absent, lots of fixtures.

Get a book like Jack Jackman's book and a few lights and learn, don't waste your money.

Or if you are in the NYC or Western Mass area take my lighting course and you'll be dancing circles around the guys that think lighting equipment is what makes you good.
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

That might be the best post I have read. Awesome. (And taken to heart).
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

so...specifically what lights would you recommend a beginner? I've read jack jackmans book, now i just need a little 'starter' kit, so suggest away!
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

..i lit an interview this last wed with one 600 watt softbox and a practical. looks great. i wouldve snuck in another backlight but there was no room though. ..i still like my briteks. i plan on getting another little kit when they are back in stock.
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

Great post Walter.  Was steam coming out of your ears?  Frankly I'm glad I don't have the money for expensive lights (no, really it's true)  It has been forcing me to learn to light with what I have.  I understand it better now, and improvising forces me to learn what works, and what is extraneous.

I just wish I could keep all these friggin candles lit at once.
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

jack jackman? who's jack jackman? nothing comes up on amazon. book title please.
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

Whoops! My computer corrected my incorrect spelling of John to be Jack. John Jackman.
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

Great post Walter. I totally agree. Start small. I started off just using some cheap 500 watt photofloods, some foamcore and a bit of gel.

Blazingoat if you're in Toronto...DVShop is great. Although you might want to also check out www.imagegearinc.com. They're a small shop but have fantastic service. Speak to Mike Wilder over there...he can put together a small custom kit to suit your needs.

Thanks,
Barry
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

I purchased the DV Creator 55 light kit and have to say that I really like it. But I've still been teaching my self lighting in the method that Walter mentioned - I just wanted the kit for value and have been adding lights into my repertoire from the kit. I still don't use the tota much, but I use everything else all the time.

I recently started practicing with flags (foamcore boards from Staples) and find these just as important as lights, but I suppose it depends on the style of lighting you're shooting for. My primary reason for picking up this kit was to do three point, interview (talking head style) lighting for corporate training videos and it fits that need very, very well. Also their small size are an advantage for me as I have to travel to most locations.

All of this said, a friend is a Glamour photographer who studied in Paris. He learned to light his subjects with a single bare bulb. His shots are some of the most beautiful I've ever seen.

MattC
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

[quote author=Walter_Graff link=board=lighting;num=1102653280;start=0#2 date=12/10/04 at 00:09:37]Get a book like Jack Jackman's book and a few lights and learn, don't waste your money.

Or if you are in the NYC or Western Mass area take my lighting course and you'll be dancing circles around the guys that think lighting equipment is what makes you good. [/quote]

Walter, I also am a newbie researching lighting kits. I live in NJ, where do you offer your Lighting Course and what is the cost?

Can someone explain the basic differences between the characteristics of Tungsten vs Flourescent Light Kits?
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

Thanks Walter:

I just ordered the book from Amazon!

Regards,

Ray
 
Re: need help with first lighting kit purchase

Here is a good piece of info I found on DVInfo regarding Rostronics/Britek for a starter kit.

James Barker says

"Anyway, here's what I suggest. Visit the DVXuser web site - this forum in particular:

http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl?board=lighting

Users there have discovered Britek lights in a big way and have negotiated a 5% discount with Rostronics. It's a good informative web site whether you own the Panny DVX100/A or not. See what the folks there think. I sure you'll find that most of them agree with me, that these lights are a fantastic deal for the money. They are NOT fresnels, but they ARE focusable and they all have really sturdy barndoors included.

If you decide to buy, then I suggest making up your own kit by starting here:

http://www.rostronics.com/products.asp?cat=27

My suggestion would be to scroll down to "Britek G-3000 300W Light" and add the "8' Air-Cushioned Light Stand" and the "32" Translucent Umbrella".

"Add to cart" and when your items list shows up, "Continue Shopping", which will take you back to where you started.

Scroll down to "600 Watt studio Light with barndoor", add "24 x 24 Softbox", "8' Air-Cushioned Light Stand" and "Extra 600W Bulb" (one bulb already comes with the head). Add to Cart>Continue Shopping and choose the same items again and add to your cart.

You should now have two 600W heads with softboxes, stands, etc. and one 300W head with stand and umbrella. When you go to "Checkout", there's an additional comments box, where you should type in that you also want one light-head case and one stand-bag. Tom will email you back to confirm total price etc., and you'll also have a chance to do it by phone, if you'd rather.

If you joined DVXuser.com (free) you can use the discount code for members (5%) also on the Checkout page. By my quick reckoning, this little kit should cost you about $570 complete."

Followed by Barry Green saying

"100% agreed with everything Jack said."


http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?s=22b2516333bba30a5427cc7fd4344890&threadid=33689
 
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