Need Help - Tons of motion blur on very minimal movement Red MX footage

Red4Breakfast said:
I agree with you that with the R1-M sensor, you really don't want to be pushing it over 320, rarely over 500, only in extreme circumstances, but on the R1-MX sensor, 500ISO and even 800ISO is what most DP's have rated the new sensor at.
I agree with you on every point you have made except for the fact that because it was shot at 800ISO, there was something amiss.

Cheers,
Peter Mosiman
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I didn't realize until AFTER I had made the posts and went back and looked at the original posts that it was an MX sensor. But even with that, there should be no reason to shoot at ISO 800 in a studio setting, with adequate light. I use ISO 800 on my DSLR when I am nearly OUT of light. If I'm shooting in a studio with several kilowatts at my disposal, I don't care if I am on a D21 or a 1/4" CCD Handycam, I'm not pushing ISO800.
 
PerroneFord said:
I didn't realize until AFTER I had made the posts and went back and looked at the original posts that it was an MX sensor. But even with that, there should be no reason to shoot at ISO 800 in a studio setting, with adequate light. I use ISO 800 on my DSLR when I am nearly OUT of light. If I'm shooting in a studio with several kilowatts at my disposal, I don't care if I am on a D21 or a 1/4" CCD Handycam, I'm not pushing ISO800.
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Now that I can understand. hah. You had me worried there for a second, since your posts demonstrate that you have a vast working knowledge.

PS. Alison, there is simply no way for the footage to look like that if everything your crew is saying is correct (in particular about the shutter speed). Thats textbook global shutter. Sorry, I'm sure thats not the news you were looking for.
 
Red4Breakfast said:
Now that I can understand. hah. You had me worried there for a second, since your posts demonstrate that you have a vast working knowledge.

PS. Alison, there is simply no way for the footage to look like that if everything your crew is saying is correct (in particular about the shutter speed). Thats textbook global shutter. Sorry, I'm sure thats not the news you were looking for.
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nor is it news I fully understand, haha. the dp and 1st ac are coming over tomorrow to look at the footage and see if they can figure it out at all. i'm pretty upset, as I really put my heart into this project, and a re-shoot is really not possible because of money...

i am not accepting defeat yet however. I really need to know 100% for sure WHY this happened, before I can conclude that it cannot be fixed.
 
Jungle Media said:
Ok, talked to my dp/camera operator. I got him to look at this thread. He says you would be right about the 800 ISO if it was a Red One, but it was a RED MX and with the new MX sensor it should be native 800.
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The fact that the camera is native ISO 800 is great. But it doesn't mean you have to shoot it there. But let's put that aside.



Jungle Media said:
I also found the camera reports.

Shutter speed is always either 1/48 or 1/96
ISO is always 800

For the Stop, I have things like 4, 5.6, 5.6 2/3, 4 2/3

If I pick a specific shot for you that is really bad, like the close up one in the first post of this thread, these are all the details:

Lens - 100
Stop - 4
No Dolly
Shutter - 1/48
ISO - 800
FPS - 24
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Panavision makes a nice general reference sheet for table of illumination. You can see it here: Since this is based on well understood physics, it applies fairly well to film, digital cameras, etc. :

http://www.panavision.co.nz/main/kbase/reference/tbleExposure.asp

According to that chart, if your shutter speed was 1/48, F-Stop was F4, and ISO was 800 (2 x 400) then the proper light level falling on your subject would have been about 25 foot candles. For reference purposes the reading lamp next to my bed is putting about 20ft candles onto my laptop keyboard as I type this. So would you say that the lighting levels in the studio were about the same level as a nightstand desk lamp? If not, then something seems a bit fishy about the camera report. Or your camera is defective.


Jungle Media said:
Does this make any difference to your conclusions?
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We know certain things to be true. We know that the shutter speed chosen is too slow to stop motion. a 1/48 shutter is fast enough to give good motion characteristics of a person walking at a normal pace. This is why it's a common shutter setting in the film industry. It is EASILY fast enough to film a talking head, even with moderate movement.

We KNOW that the camera was set at ISO 800 as the camera report and the metadata line up on that fact. So if we take what we know (ISO and Shutter Speed) and extrapolate for what we don't know, there is NO WAY this camera was using a F-Stop of F4 unless the set was being lit with a desklamp, or there was a filter or filters on the lens that was cutting a significant amount of light.

No matter what answers we find, none of it will solve your issue, that you essentially have non-fixable footage on your computer.
 
Just checked REDUser again. Seems you're getting consistent answers in both places, and those guys can help you more than I can. I've only worked with the RED on set once, and those folks have more experience with it, and other tools than I do. So I will bow out now leaving you in their capable hands.

Best of luck.
 
Hi Alison, your camera report is wrong. There's no way thats a 180 degree shutter angle. There's been a mistake made unfortunately.

There are some thing that may help that I personally have never tried but I have heard great things about, one being the neatvideo plugin for noise removal. I know noise isnt motion blur but apparently it can be used for this purpose with good results, maybe the best you can hope for.

Good luck

Noel

EDIT: Also I note on the second set of stills you posted that the subject may also be soft on focus as well :S
 
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