Need help syncing HV-20 and Boom Recorder with Timecode

Tim Young

Tim Young

Active member
Hey everyone,

Here's what I want to do: sync my macbook pro running boom recorder to my hv-20 so that I don't have to manually sync sound to a clapboard hit for every clip.

I will admit that I don't understand timecode well. I've read and searched and still don't have a good feel for it. My understanding is that timecode (at least Longitudinal Timecode or LTC, which i think is was people are referring to when they say timecode) is actually an audio signal (a chain of clicks and beeps is what I'm imagining) that is recorded on an audio channel. When I import my footage from my hv-20 in final cut pro, I think that I can capture that audio track as timecode, as in it will convert it into the timecode numbers. If the timecode that I have recorded on my audio in Boom Recorder has synchronized timecode stamped on it in the broadcast wave format, I should be able to snap that audio to the video in Final Cut Pro without manually syncing it. I have FCP 6, and from what I have read this feature is available after FCP 5-point-something. So can I generate a timecode audio signal from my macbook that is recorded on the Boom Recorder audio and that I would send via a cable to my hv-20? Or do I need a separate timecode generator? This article on the Boom Recorder site written by a guy who recorded the audio for a short in Boom Recorder seems to show him using a DAT machine to generate timecode:

http://www.vosgames.nl/products/BoomRecorder/BrianCopenhagen.shtml

Would I need to buy a DAT or are there cheaper timecode generators? I wouldn't need the ability to record audio, so the DAT function woulnd't be necessary.

I realize that that paragraph may be a jumbled mess of misinformation. If anyone can help me accomplish my goal it would be much appreciated. By the way, I'm still planning on using a clapboard as backup, but if possible I'd love to be able to avoid manually syncing everything all the time. Thanks in advance!
 
Note that the reference on the BoomRecorder site your link points to is discussing a FILM workflow. In double system audio for video, you either use the camera as the timecode source or you sync both the camera and the audio recorder to a common house clock. That way the timecode recorded in the audio file timestamp matches the timecode recorded in the video clip and when you drop them into the editing timeline they line up to each other. The key concept here is the camera's timecode and the audio timecode match each others exactly down to the frame. But the HV-20 doesn't have any TC in or out connections so there's no direct way to establish that matchup. Without it, timecode in the audio is pointless - for timecode to do anything for you the code in BOTH the audio and video must be the same.

There is one way to do it but I suspect it's going to be far more expensive than it'll be worth to you. That is to borrow from the film workflow - very few film cameras have TC I/O either - and get a smart slate that has a timecode generator and readout. You run the slate's TC output to your recorder either with a permanent cable connection, wireless, or by jamming the recorder from it. You slate each shot as always. When you capture the clip into your editor, you set the timeline numbers to match the displayed frame number on the slate in the image. Then when you drop the audio clip in, it will align its timestamp to the same timeline numbers. The downside? Smart slates usually cost well over a kilobuck.

The other option is to record a LTC track on one of the audio tracks in the camera but that still means you have to have something to generate the code and then send it both to the camera and the BoomRecorder and we're back to the slate or similar timecode generator again.
 
Thanks for the help Steve!

Steve House said:
Smart slates usually cost well over a kilobuck.
Click to expand...

You're right, it sounds like a smart slate is not in my budget for now.

Steve House said:
The other option is to record a LTC track on one of the audio tracks in the camera but that still means you have to have something to generate the code and then send it both to the camera and the BoomRecorder and we're back to the slate or similar timecode generator again.
Click to expand...

Okay, so I think this is the option I'm interested in. It sounds like this might work for me. Are there options other than a smart slate or a DAT like the one in the article I linked to (I searched on ebay and found a few for over a grand). It seems like a piece of equipment might exist that would only generate LTC (that could be split and sent to both Boom Recorder and my HV-20) that might be affordable (say $200-300 or less). I'll continue to search around, but anyone know of something that fits that profile off hand?
 
How about something like this Horita portable LTC generator? It seems to have an RCA out that could be split and sent to Boom Recorder and the camera.

I guess the downside of doing something like this is having another cable tethering the camera down, but I think I could live with that and just use the clapboard to sync shots where it would make camera movement tough or get in the way otherwise.

Here's an idea - is it possible to find long recordings of LTC timecode in wav or aif format? I'm thinking I could play that through one of the outputs on my firewire sound card into both Boom Recorder (maybe feed it back into one of my inputs?) and the hv-20, so I wouldn't need an LTC generator. Would that work?
 
Tim Young said:
Thanks for the help Steve!



You're right, it sounds like a smart slate is not in my budget for now.



Okay, so I think this is the option I'm interested in. It sounds like this might work for me. Are there options other than a smart slate or a DAT like the one in the article I linked to (I searched on ebay and found a few for over a grand). It seems like a piece of equipment might exist that would only generate LTC (that could be split and sent to both Boom Recorder and my HV-20) that might be affordable (say $200-300 or less). I'll continue to search around, but anyone know of something that fits that profile off hand?
Click to expand...

Well, you are correct that stand-alone timecode generators do exist but not in the price range you mention. Ambient, Deneke, and Horita make 'em but once again you're looking at the kilobuck price range. MOTU has their V3HD that gives you your timecode plus a firewire audio interface and a number of other goodies for a mere $2800. One thing for sure, buying a DAT just to get TC generated doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
 
and you dont need smart slate , it is a waist of money
of course if you find some old dynekey or psc it might worth get one fo low price
 
ESTEBEVERDE said:
Slate the shots my friend.

It's not that big of a deal and will give you practice.
Click to expand...

I'm planning on slating anyway, as a backup and because I think it's beneficial for actors. I was just looking for something to save me from manually syncing every shot, which I think is tedious work.
 
PTG $449 Picture
Portable Mini Time Code Generator w/ 2 Line LCD
The PTG is the latest addition to HORITA's line of award winning miniature handheld portables for use in the field. This palm- sized generator is simple to setup and operate and features a large 2-line liquid crystal display (LCD) readout for time code, user bits, and setup information. The PTG is an ideal generator for use with inexpensive camcorders in multi camera situations where it is necessary for each tape to have the same time code for precise time and image matching during post production. These situations may include sporting events, games, concerts, automobile, aircraft, and boating events, parades, weddings, etc.
For these applications the PTGs are jammed (automatically preset) to the same time code source and the user bits of the time code are set to the date and also include a unique ID number for each individual PTG. Each tape recorded in this manner will have the same time and date but a different ID number so they can't get mixed up later. The PTG can also jam to an RS232 serial data input from a GPS receiver for generation of precise time of day and date time code.
  • Operates synchronized to video or free runes at frame rates of 23.976, 24 (film), 25 (PAL), 29.97 (drop or non-drop frame), or 30 FPS
  • Time code and user bits can be set manually or jammed to an external time code source or GPS receiver
  • Programmable "ID" in user bits to positively identify camera, location, operator, etc.
  • Powered over 24 hours on a single 9V battery.
  • All settings and presets are maintained in non-volatile memory, even when the battery is removed
 
or you can record 24 h tc on cheap flash recorder in free run and feed the boom recorder and the camera in the same time on audio channel - 128 kb would more then enouth
dont know if it possible thet the mac would play back tc then you can feed it during the boom recorder session
ask take vose about
 
better you will see get one with dispaly as without its abit hard to see what are you doig
also i dont know if the one you show is not jam only
 
Oleg 2 said:
i dont know if the one you show is not jam only
Click to expand...

Can you "jam sync" on a shot where you're starting and stopping shooting and might be turning the camera on and off? The hv-20 turns off after awhile if you're not operating it. How would I jam sync? As you can see I don't fully understand it.
 
you dont jam the camera , you are feeding the audio channel continuesly with tc feed , doesnt matter if camera go off as you not jamming its tc
of course you can buy 2 like that ( 1 with outdispaly) and use one as master and second as slave for jam - then feeding both devices separetly all the time
or just send wireless tc feed to the camera with any cheap transmitter hooking it high enouth on the stand to get as less as posible drop outs
if you dont like drag cables around
 
You CAN jam boom recorder though - I do this all the time. Just remember to re-jam it once or twice a day as insurance.

Your process could look something like this:

1. Start the TC generator (whichever one you get)
2. Jam boom recorder
3. Connect the TC generator to your camera

You should then be good to go. Be sure to check the level on the camera - TC tends to send very hot and I'm not sure if blown out TC audio will still synch correctly.

Phil
 
Thanks Phil. That makes sense. I was seriously considering buying 2 LTC generators. Maybe I'll just start with one and try jam syncing boom recorder. Based on Oleg's advice, I was thinking about getting one Horita with an LCD display ($410 - Click here) and one without a display ($260 - Click here). Is there any reason the workflow you're describing wouldn't work with the cheaper generator only? It would be great if I could accomplish this for only $260. But would I wish I had the display? What are the benefits of having it? I guess I'd be able to see the TC running in boom recorder but not on the camera, so would having the display on the camera's generator at least show me that the two weren't grossly out of synch?
 
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