need comments on my potential audio setup

slimchrisp

slimchrisp

Well-known member
after reading a lot of threads here, i think i have decided on the audio setup i am going to put together. so this is what i'm planning to get:

oktava mk012a matched pair with hypercardioid capsules - $376

2 Rycote Baby Ball Gag Windshields - $139/each

2 Rycote Windjammers - $70/each

2 booms - $??? Need to review this a little more. I'm guessing between $200 and $400. Damn that's a lot to pay for a metal stick.

Digidesign Mbox 2 Factory USB Audio Interface bundled with plug-ins - $549

That comes to a total of $1343, plus whatever the booms come out to. I'm thinking mbox because i can use it for field recording as well as ADR work. So basically, before i drop all this cash i just want to get a few people saying, "yep, that's basically what i use and it's worked great".

i'm also still not exactly sure when i would use the cardioid or omnidirectional capsule. what i've gotten from most posts are that the capsule use will look something like

hypercardioid 80% to 100% of the time
cardioid 15% of the time
omnidirectional 5% of the time

i will also be using these mics to mic instruments, but that comes second. the primary use will be dialogue and ambient noise. just out of curiosity, how bad would it hurt me to just get one mk012 now, and at some point get a second? they wouldn't be matched of course if i did that, but i could also save myself over $500 since i wouldn't need the extra bbg, windjamer and boom. will i be kicking myself later for not getting a matched pair?

basically, just looking for suggestions to get the most out of $1000 - $1500. i do already have a rode ntg-2 shotgun, but i know that's not the best mic all of the time. also, how well will running the oktavas directly into my dvx sound? if that won't work, i could always use the mbox.

so yeah, lot's of questions here. sorry for so much in one post, but thanks ahead of time for any input. hopefully this post will help out some others in the future as well.
 
slimchrisp said:
I'm thinking mbox because i can use it for field recording as well as ADR work.
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I'm not quite sure how you're invisioning this working in the field... the Mbox 2 runs off USB 2.0 power from the computer, which will sap your computer's battery dry before you're through your first DV tape. The Mbox 2 Pro has an option for external power, but you would still need some sort of generator.
 
Get a carbon pole,VDB or something like it. check the used market for poles. What are you going to plug these mics into (mixer)and you will need decent headphones.
Mbox? No run and gun for you dude...car batteries and inverters and sound cart and ....way hassle
 
thanks for the input everyone. these were exacly the types of comments i wanted. i was thinking mbox because of the compact size, and that it would give me a lot of what i need for most situations. adr work as well in the field.

so, it looks like the big problems are when i don't have a power source for the laptop, the mbox would suck it dry pretty fast.

i was planning on using the mbox as my mixer. yeah, not the best option for that task, but i can use a little compression to help my levels, and then there are the input level knobs also. again, not the premier solution, but i'm looking for an inexpensive all-in-one solution, which really is a lot to ask.

how happy am i going to be running mk012s straight into my dvx? will that sound ok?
 
point 1: NEVER apply compression to location dialogue tracks. limiting as a tool sometimes, but not compression.

point 2: I think the mbox is really not what you want. I'm pretty sure a good 2 or 3 channel mixer will give you better bang for the buck, and more ease of use.

point 3: oktava's sound ok straight to DVX, but a mixer serves more than just a quality purpose (although it WILL boost the quality of audio). A mixer provides a more flexible and intuitive interface for recording audio - it gives you options and tricks that "straight to camera" DOESNT.



Im gonna recommend you look at the Sound Devices MixPre, or (much) better yet, the SD 302.
 
Regarding the Mbox - I've used that approach. It works, but is not the most convenient setup. I don't think it should be your first choice... but, hey, what's your studio-use to field-use ratio gonna be like?

Regarding the matched pair - get the matched pair, but not all the accessories for both. You DON'T need matched ball gags or boompoles, so can get those later as necessary.

Regarding the caps: I don't know that your ratios are correct at all for ADR / studio use. The hyper is used more often for less-controlled environments and where visual issues constrain mic placement. The cardioid is probably more often used in studio settings. And, for instruments, cardioid and omni will both be extremely useful. As you may know, as a pair for stereo recording, I use the omnis in most situations; also for a lot of instrument micing they work best.
 
thanks for all of that info ullanta. lots of good stuff there.

ullanta said:
Regarding the matched pair - get the matched pair, but not all the accessories for both. You DON'T need matched ball gags or boompoles, so can get those later as necessary.
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as a matter of fact, i think i just decided to forego all of that and go diy. like you said, i can always pick all of that up later. if i skip the accessories and do the best i can diy, i can drop less cash, but still pick up a matched pair.

ullanta said:
I don't think it should be your first choice... but, hey, what's your studio-use to field-use ratio gonna be like?
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gosh, i really don't know. of course i'd like to get as much as i can in the field, but i know for a fact i will be doing a lot in post. so i know it would definitely get some use. if it shouldn't be my first choice, what do you think should?

thanks again ullanta, tons of good suggestions there.
 
you cant DIY a shockmount for the oktava - that thing will kill you if you try and play games with it. and wind protection is very important if you wanna record outdoors with it, or do some hectic fast swings.

skimping on accessories will make the mic much harder to use. i dont recommend it.
 
First of all, listen to timapter! I wouldn't suggest the DIY approach to those key elements of audio gear. I'm just saying that when buying a matched pair of mics, you can still accesorize only one for the field. That way, you CAN use them as a pair in many indoor/studio situations, and you have one to use in the field. And you can buy more field accessories later if you need 'em. But, for outdoor work and anything where the mic is moved quickly, good wind protection is far more important than mic choice.

slimchrisp said:
gosh, i really don't know. of course i'd like to get as much as i can in the field, but i know for a fact i will be doing a lot in post. so i know it would definitely get some use. if it shouldn't be my first choice, what do you think should?
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Again, it's hard to say without knowing all your constraints... if you can avoid battery-powered devices in your field work, prices will be much lower for the same audio quality (in mixers, etc). But if you need to be free to move and free of AC, something like the SD mixers are a great bet. One thought might be the SD USB MixPre - there are now many devices that provide power to devices that usually get it from a USB port; see if the USBPre is functional with power but no computer. Then, you could use that in the field and in the studio as well. Paired with a compact-flash recorder (such as the MicroTrack) that takes a digital input, you could have a nice battery-powered dual-recording system.

If you do go with the Mbox approach, I'd say you don't need the factory bundle... but more importantly, you may be better off with a used original Mbox. I haven't used the Mbox 2 extensively, but i know that it has no insert points, and that thus the outputs are always looped through the computer. Using the mbox, I use the inserts to send a pre-computer signal to the camera - so if anything goes wrong with the computer, the Mbox preamp still feeds the camera (or other backup device). In any case, an OLD Mbox is a pretty sweet deal; you could perhaps pick one of those up and get a decent field mixer for less than the new Mbox and factory bundle. And, I like the preamps better in the old one (after, at least, as small bit of testing) - specs aren't everything!

Oh, well, more to be confused about, huh? It ain't easy!
 
my money would be on SD302 - its a frickin great mixer for the field, and one nice thing is that you can always buy a cheaper A/D interface for your PC, and use the 302's pre's going line into the computer - quite cool for a studio/location crossover thing.

The USBpre doesnt work standalone unfortunately...

tim
 
thanks again tim and ullanta. just out of curiosity, have either of you shot silent and done everything in post? again, i know that's not the easiest way to do things, but i'm trying to get the most i can for a VERY LOW BUDGET. a friend who works at a place in LA that does audio post work for films recommended renting a really good mic rather than buying a lower cost mic. i was considering doing all of my ADR work that way, and then possibly adding in all ambient sound from sample cds. what do you think about that?
 
Well, I've never done it, would never do it. But it's been done... Maybe you should try ADR without a guide track before you decide on this!
 
im gonna say this as nicely as I can, and dont take it the wrong way:

DONT BE STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

no, it costs FAR less to record great production sound and apply minimal post work thant to record no sync sound and spend three years in post.

Please, dont even try it - you're setting yourself up for a fall, I promise.
 
it might be done ,you just need time , money and talent ( yours and your actors) , if you dont have at least last 2 , stay with the on location option .
 
timapter said:
im gonna say this as nicely as I can, and dont take it the wrong way:

DONT BE STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)
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lol. no offense taken tim. nothing like a little brutal honesty to start the day. :thumbup:

that's why i ask questions on this site. so i can learn from other people who may know more than i do.

again, i'm just looking for the best way to get the best possible result and do the most i can with very little. i also want to make this as manageable as possible. ie no sound guys or other crew. now, i know doing all of the work in post will take a LONG TIME, and i know it's going to take some skills, but why would it cost more money?

i'm not doubting you at all. just trying to see where the $$$ would go in that situation.
 
What you are proposing is very risky and just generally unwise. If you think you can ADR the whole thing yourself, it is possible, then do it on a test run. It won't take you long to discover it takes skill and experience to do ADR well.

As an amatuer you could very likely sit there for an hour just trying to get one line even moderately ok. Your talent will probably not accept this and grow weary of the process quickly. Even when you finally get a line to satisfaction, 9 times out 10 the original delivery was significantly better.

As per my sig; cheap, fast, and good, pick any two. You are saying you want good and cheap and are willing to forgo the fast. But if this is something you are proposing to do yourself then you might might not understand how slooooooow we are talking here. Just to get a feature length movies audio done well, I would guess it would take an amatuer well over a year working pretty much full time (ADR, editing, foley, sweetening, mixing, etc). That would be if you wanted it good, if you wanted to accept "lesser quality" then it could take less time.

To see how this works, recreate and shoot a minute or two long scene in your living room. Try to have some emotional content in the scene and some actors similar to what you will using on your movie.

Do a quick edit and then proceed to ADR the scene. DO NOT wuss out and call it "good enough"; get the sync good and your actors delivery believable. Now put the eq, reverb, and ambient in to round out the scene. How long did that take? Use that as a base of what your feature would take and don't forget that your actors will very likey burn out on this process.

The question then is, why not have someone help you with location sound? You get what you pay for but someone who is clueless is better then nothing. As long as you live somewhere near an urban center, finding a kid who wants to learn location sound and will practice on your film is just a matter of some leg work on your part. The time spent hunting done someone to help will come back to your 10 fold.

Good luck
 
Here's a new thought for you: have you looked at the MOTU traveler? It's a firewire interface that can run standalone on battery power (or FW bus power) as a mixer. Good preamps, 20 inputs (8 analog with 4 preamps) and 22 outputs (8 analog), SMPTE... might be IDEAL as a dual-use unit. About $750 street. Anybody try one of these for this purpose?

http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/traveler/

Also, the MOTU UltraLight http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/ultralite might be worth checking, cheaper and smaller, with 2 preamps (8 analog inputs total) and not quite so convenient for battery-powering.
 
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