Need advice on how to handle this feature when it comes to price.

Justin Aguirre

Justin Aguirre

Well-known member
I didn't know if this was better suited here or in the business section so please forgive me if this is wrong.

I received a email from a director asking for my services as a DP for his first feature. After meeting with him and letting him know my usual rate is $200 a day (low I know) he said he would do his best to get close to my rate. I mentioned I was willing to work him on a price for the whole production instead of a daily day rate. All I said was that I would need to know the shooting schedule before I can give any real idea for a price.

Fast forward a few days to another meeting. Still no shooting schedule and he says he can offer me $500 for the whole production with the rest being deferred net pay (ew I know). I told him I still needed that schedule before I got back to him. (Right now I don't care what the schedule is, I will not do it for that price.) He also wants me to shoot the photos for the poster, which I again have no problem with because that price would be tied in to the production rate.

Fast forward a few more days. Still no schedule, but he said he would bring the contact to the poster photoshoot for me to sign. I politely tell him I need it before the photo shoot as I still need the shooting schedule to finalize the price.

Fast forward to today. Still no word on a schedule and he planned for the photoshoot for 72 hours from now... :(

That's my story.

What I want to ask the fellow DP's on this board is did I handle this correctly? My viewpoint is that without knowing how many days we are shooting I can't give him a price. All I know is that principal photography is suppose to begin 4/25/11. I'm bringing the camera and lighting package to the production as well. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, this would be my first time DPing a feature so I plan on using what I learned here on future job opportunities.
 
IMO you did right and wrong. The good news is you never agreed to shoot the film for $500 but if you knew you would never agree to that rate you should have told him up front. Who knows maybe he could have found another sucker to shoot his film for $500.

BTW, I wouldn't be to concerned about missing out on a golden opportunity....$500 to shoot a feature. Where do you think this going to end up?
 
I've seen shady producers do this before, they know they have crap for budget and know you're a nice guy who wants to work on their project. They drag out how much you'll be making for how much work until the last possible moment, and then spring it on you the day before. The idea is that you then are such a nice guy that you feel obliged to help still, and if you bail on the project then you're the bad guy who's completely derailing the project.

This is a little better in at least that he gave you a price, and I suppose the rest in deferred. And who knows, maybe he is just completely overwhelmed and is not only directing this, but also doing just about everything else, so he has no idea on the schedule yet because he hasn't gotten to it. But there's plenty of flags here to know you should pass on the project. For one, with the obvious small budget and lack of planning, you're never going to see that deferred payment, and possibly may never even see a film out of it. And it's no golden opportunity, so unless you're in love with the script, or desperate for more DP credits, I think you move on.

Phudsontx is right though, you should have told him you wouldn't do it for that price as soon as you knew. And at this point you have to be firm on your side. Call him up, and tell him that you can't work for that rate (unless it was a 3 day shoot feature based on your rate) and that because of the lack of scheduling you'd like to bow out now so he has time to find a replacement. That way he can't make you the bad guy in 3 days when you bail on the photoshoot or alternatively get a free photoshoot from you when you have to bail 3 weeks from now.
 
drcheese said:
I've seen shady producers do this before, they know they have crap for budget and know you're a nice guy who wants to work on their project. They drag out how much you'll be making for how much work until the last possible moment, and then spring it on you the day before. The idea is that you then are such a nice guy that you feel obliged to help still, and if you bail on the project then you're the bad guy who's completely derailing the project.

This is a little better in at least that he gave you a price, and I suppose the rest in deferred. And who knows, maybe he is just completely overwhelmed and is not only directing this, but also doing just about everything else, so he has no idea on the schedule yet because he hasn't gotten to it. But there's plenty of flags here to know you should pass on the project. For one, with the obvious small budget and lack of planning, you're never going to see that deferred payment, and possibly may never even see a film out of it. And it's no golden opportunity, so unless you're in love with the script, or desperate for more DP credits, I think you move on.

Phudsontx is right though, you should have told him you wouldn't do it for that price as soon as you knew. And at this point you have to be firm on your side. Call him up, and tell him that you can't work for that rate (unless it was a 3 day shoot feature based on your rate) and that because of the lack of scheduling you'd like to bow out now so he has time to find a replacement. That way he can't make you the bad guy in 3 days when you bail on the photoshoot or alternatively get a free photoshoot from you when you have to bail 3 weeks from now.
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I agree, but I would like to point out the likely hood of there ever being any deferred funds being received are slim to none a project like this. At least this has been my experience.
 
Abort! Even if you havent done a feature yet you can find better foot ins then this. The producer sounds very un organized and I would be amazed if he even finishes the film.
 
+1 get as far away.

If the production is unorganized like this, can't even get you the schedule. The chance, you getting pay and this film getting pick up 0%.
Cause they know they will never pay you, so what in a rush to get you a contract. Simply, you are not in the real part of the budget they care about.

I know it will be a super good opportunity to shoot a feature but it is not worth it. You paid $$$ to get your camera and lights. So they should pay you for your service too.
Keep us update.
 
What you really need to know is how many scheduled shoot days and commencement date.

But $500 for the whole production is a bit of a joke. What level are you at presently? Have you researched this director? Where did his last efforts go?

These are some questions worth answering. Doesnt sounds like he gives any value to how its shot however, so I cant imagine the answers will show anything positive, but is worth looking at if you're after experience and he has a name.
 
phudsontx said:
I agree, but I would like to point out the likely hood of there ever being any deferred funds being received are slim to none a project like this. At least this has been my experience.
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Especially net. You won't see a dime even if he makes a couple bucks off the film.


If this guy is not listening to you now, think about what is going to happen on set. I hate directors who don't listen to you up front then act shocked on the shoot and try to pass blame on you.

And also 20 days for pre-production for a feature, sorry to say the rush job is going to produce crap. You don't want to attach that to your name.

I would take a couple bucks and do the photography for him, and walk on the film. But get the money up front though cuz people like this will give you the "checks in the mail" line and never pay up.
 
phudsontx said:
IMO you did right and wrong. The good news is you never agreed to shoot the film for $500 but if you knew you would never agree to that rate you should have told him up front. Who knows maybe he could have found another sucker to shoot his film for $500.

BTW, I wouldn't be to concerned about missing out on a golden opportunity....$500 to shoot a feature. Where do you think this going to end up?
Click to expand...

Thanks phudsontx, I actually told him that price was too low and I'd get back to him with a number of my own when I saw the shooting schedule. I just forgot to mention that part.
 
Noel Evans said:
What you really need to know is how many scheduled shoot days and commencement date.

But $500 for the whole production is a bit of a joke. What level are you at presently? Have you researched this director? Where did his last efforts go?

These are some questions worth answering. Doesnt sounds like he gives any value to how its shot however, so I cant imagine the answers will show anything positive, but is worth looking at if you're after experience and he has a name.
Click to expand...

Thanks Noel, while I haven't shot a feature before, I've done my fair share of productions. I feel confident to take one on with my current knowledge of lighting and camera experience. My reel is here if you would like to take a look at what I can achieve.

http://vimeo.com/20181814

He is a first time director who just finished interning at a production company. A producer from the company is his mentor in all of this. He is an okay guy, has a lot more experience then the director.
 
To everyone else:

Thanks for the feedback on everything, I really appreciate it!

And in case anyone was wondering the camera/lighting package I was bringing was:

Canon 7D
Primes: 28, 35, 50, 100, 135
Follow Focus
Monitor
Shoulder Mount

2 1k fresnels
1.2k HMI fresnel
2 open faced 650s
4ft 4 bank kino
China Balls
 
That and the fact that they haven't contacted you regarding scouting, aesthetics, etc. (It sounds like they haven't)

That tells me they are primarily interested in your gear, and not your input or value as a cinematographer.

I HATE people like that. It just makes me mad.
 
Yeah, that's the other issue I have. I graduated from film school last year so I'm in the stereotypical situation of, "how much should I charge". Personally I would like to price myself around the $350-450 a day rate. But seeing how saturated the market is out here in Los Angeles most jobs I'm finding are in the $200 range.

But I knew this field wasn't easy getting into hahaha.

I know if I keep working hard, improving my skills, and networking I will be able to be in that ballpark eventually.
 
Do what you can to avoid the temptation to go low - it'll be better for you in the long run.
 
Free (or cheap) work tends to get you more free (or cheap) work.

Lately I've found myself drawing more and more lines in the sand. No more free/cheap stuff. My time and equipment are worth more than an attaboy and promises of future paid projects.
 
bro, your camera package is about $200-300/day so on a feature it's about $2-3k

then your lighting package is about $250/day so again about $2.5k on a month long production.

even with zero experience you should be walking away with about $5-6k for gear alone.
 
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