Need advice for light/small 4K camera

CharlesPapert

CharlesPapert

Director of Photography
Hiya:

I have need for a very lightweight 4K camera preferably at least 1" sensor, that can record 4K internally AND provide external monitoring output. I have an RX100IV but the HDMI cuts out when recording 4K. I think the same is true of the 100V (not sure about the just announced VI model). Preferable not a wide-angle/fisheye GoPro type of camera, something a touch more sophisticated. Would be going on a Zhiyun Crane M, and another handheld setup that is even more weight-critical. Suggestions please?
 
An interesting camera in the Go Pro size the the Hawkeye Firefly 8s with 90 degree lens (it comes in 170 or 90). It's not what you called for, but since it has a 90 degree lens rather than a 170 degree, maybe it will meet your needs.
 
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CharlesPapert said:
Hiya:

I have need for a very lightweight 4K camera preferably at least 1" sensor, that can record 4K internally AND provide external monitoring output. I have an RX100IV but the HDMI cuts out when recording 4K. I think the same is true of the 100V (not sure about the just announced VI model). Preferable not a wide-angle/fisheye GoPro type of camera, something a touch more sophisticated. Would be going on a Zhiyun Crane M, and another handheld setup that is even more weight-critical. Suggestions please?
Click to expand...
I think the Zcam has a great potential.
check out the footage on the bottom of the page:
http://www.z-cam.com/e2/
 
The Sony A7 III looks to be the best bang-for-buck small/lightweight camera available that shoots very high quality internal 4K with decent skintones and AF. It's a bit bigger than the all-in-ones, though will still be fairly small and light for easy use with a one-handed gimbal etc. The only challenge is it may be hard to find one in stock. It's been sold out since release and sells out quickly when new stock arrives. That should tell you something about its value.
 
Max load on the ZC-M is only 650g, so... no a7, no GH5, no GH5s

I don't know if the a6300/a6500 can output 4k while recording internally, but if they do, add the Sigma 19mm f/2.8 and you are well under 650g. Even a6300 + Samyang 12mm f/2.0 is right on the limit, and that's some truly awesome lens.

And I don't know much about the Panasonics but I know they make "small siblings" to their GH4/GH5, maybe those would work for you?

In any case, the ZC-M is not that much lighter or smaller than the standard ZC, maybe you can rethink if that limitation really makes sense...
 
Consider http://www.ioindustries.com/cameras.html And zcam .. tools designed for the job.

Next I would discount all Sony cameras that are 8bit420 - just don’t think they have a solid file- and so many quirkes like rolling shutter.

That leaves gh5s being the best mirror less camera?

If one can disregard the 4K spec you could consider bmc micro. Disregarding that 4K spec could be intelligent as jamming so many pixels into a small sensor has costs.

Or wait for the new pocket.

—
Personally i think flare io are beyond my budget- my possible upgrade from my micro wil be the Zcam or gh5s
 
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Samuel H said:
I don't know if the a6300/a6500 can output 4k while recording internally, but if they do, add the Sigma 19mm f/2.8 and you are well under 650g. Even a6300 + Samyang 12mm f/2.0 is right on the limit, and that's some truly awesome lens.
Click to expand...

I use the a6300 w/ Rok 12mm lens on gimbal quite a bit. And can confirm it looks better than it should at that price point & it can output 4k while also recording it internally. But I mostly shoot in HD - because of the RS.
I'd probably cast another vote for the a7III - if you can find it in stock. 15-stop dynamic range at low sensitivity values and yes while Sam is correct about the 8bit420 internal - you can get 422 w/ external recorder & I find transcoding the internal XAVC-S file to ProRes on ingest - certainly helps on my 6300.
 
Panasonic GX85 is small, light, m43, IBIS, and has a micro HDMI out that allows for external recording. Not sure if it allows monitoring via HDMI while recording internally.

Cheap too at $600 with kit lens.

Cons: no mic input, no headphone jack, 30 min record limit.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Hiya:

I have need for a very lightweight 4K camera preferably at least 1" sensor, that can record 4K internally AND provide external monitoring output. I have an RX100IV but the HDMI cuts out when recording 4K. I think the same is true of the 100V (not sure about the just announced VI model). Preferable not a wide-angle/fisheye GoPro type of camera, something a touch more sophisticated. Would be going on a Zhiyun Crane M, and another handheld setup that is even more weight-critical. Suggestions please?
Click to expand...
If the RX line is the max size you're going for, consider the LX100 from Pana.
Still waiting for an update to this model, meanwhile it can be had dirt cheap, just watch out it is prone for sensor dust...
 
Thanks all.

Zcam looks interesting--unfortunately seems to be between product cycles right now (E2 has definitely improved specs but not yet avail).

Will have to experiment with running lightweight HDMI off the Zhiyun Crane for external recorder, see if it binds up. From my Steadicam days I was familiar with the torque effects of different types of cable--thin is not as important as flexible by a long shot. Don't think I've seen truly flexible HDMI cable yet, too many strands in there.

I'm not really a fan of the larger single grip gimbals with a DSLR on there from an ergonomics perspective, the top-heaviness is entirely conter-intuitive. At that point dual grip makes more sense to me and then it logically moves into the full size gimbals..

This setup is intended for high speed running work for shots that will last a couple of seconds on screen, with the other application a handheld rig that the actor carries, so I'm looking at the lightest weight options for camera. We did the latter setup last season with an iPhone which does allow for simultaneous 4K shooting and external monitoring but even with Filmic Pro is a tough image to work with.
 
CharlesPapert said:
Thanks all.

Zcam looks interesting--unfortunately seems to be between product cycles right now (E2 has definitely improved specs but not yet avail).

Will have to experiment with running lightweight HDMI off the Zhiyun Crane for external recorder, see if it binds up. From my Steadicam days I was familiar with the torque effects of different types of cable--thin is not as important as flexible by a long shot. Don't think I've seen truly flexible HDMI cable yet, too many strands in there.

I'm not really a fan of the larger single grip gimbals with a DSLR on there from an ergonomics perspective, the top-heaviness is entirely conter-intuitive. At that point dual grip makes more sense to me and then it logically moves into the full size gimbals..

This setup is intended for high speed running work for shots that will last a couple of seconds on screen, with the other application a handheld rig that the actor carries, so I'm looking at the lightest weight options for camera. We did the latter setup last season with an iPhone which does allow for simultaneous 4K shooting and external monitoring but even with Filmic Pro is a tough image to work with.
Click to expand...

Charles, these cables are definitely flexible to the point of creating totally negligible torque. They are extremely thin, but also totally limp.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...3L7w4Rc4CiBniHRw9fvNcvVAy9uGdlrYaAo4sEALw_wcB
 
I have some skinny hdmi cables that are prettty flexible - got th from Amazon I think - they are about 3mm round in profileand 70cm long
Run to my Animon transmitter on my ronin rig handle no problem.

To be fair they have pretty much changed my hatred of HDMI

Edit - yep they look like the b and h link above
 
Have u tried a GoPro 6?

I used one quickly on a shoot recently. Was handed it on location and had 3 mins to tinker and didn’t see the footage - so a minimal experience

But my “vibe” was good - manual control and a rear screen make for a “great” experience compared to my early screenless GoPro experiences. With an ND I think they could be interesting.

De fish in post works well. And with an actor/operator the “overscan” could be used to clean up their framing

GoPro apps are pretty solid for remote start stop
 
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Thanks on the link for the floppy HDMI's, ordered.

I did some knocking about today and came up with a way to mount my Shogun under the Crane M in a reasonably balanced fashion (below)--this will allow me to use the RX100IV and record 4k ProRes 422HQ, which will satisfy post requirements. And the Connex Mini mounted behind it will transmit to monitors. So I think I have this part of the equation taken care of using all gear I already owned.

The other application is trickier but I have some fun ideas that I will share down the road.

IMG_5364.jpg
 
You can get Gopros thst are modified with different lenses from Ragecams.com, looks like they only mod up to series 5 cameras. Might help, might not.
 
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