ND Filters on Mattebox with HVX - What's the point?

O

ozzymandius

Active member
Wondering if anyone can clear this up for me. I have an HVX with Letus Extreme, Nikon lenses and just bought a matte box. Now the flags on the matte box certainly come in useful to control light flares and other anomalies that can occur when too much light hits the nikon lenses. But I am having a debate with other shooters with regards to ND filters. They insist that I should buy some. But my take is that the HVX already has internal ND filters and I can just use those.

Is there any benefit to having ND filters in the matte box, before light hits both the Nikon lens AND the HVX lens? My thinking is that as long as there is an ND filter somewhere before the image sensor, that's all that matters - and the HVX already has such filters built in.

In terms of non ND filters, what's the use of those, if all looks can be created in post in Final Cut Color? Is there really that much of a difference between optical filters and digital post filters, from an audience pov? I have a feeling even pro DPs might not be able to tell the difference when viewing a finished film. Or am I wrong on that?
 
Certain filters cannot be recreated in post.
A polarizer is the prime example of that - it cuts reflections and haze, reducing the angle at which the light can enter the lens. There is no way to recreate that in post once you've shot your image full of reflections (to cut through the reflection of a windshield or window for example).

As far as the ND filters go - the ND's in the HVX are 3 and 6 stop filters (if I remember correctly, if not, someone correct me please).
Those are pretty big increments, so having some inbetween NDs can definitely be helpful.

As far as whether or not have the ND in the HVX or on the taking lens makes a difference...that's an interesting question.
I haven't had too much experience yet with adapters, but I'm going to look into that.

EDITED TO ADD:
Another thing that would be helpful, that cannot be recreated in post, is a graduated ND filter.
 
Thanks for the input.

It's true that the internal ND filters offer pretty coarse jumps in stops. In that sense, having some additional NDs for the matte box makes sense I guess.
 
From what I have heard as well, you may want to keep your HVX f stop at 5.6 or wider or you will see the ground glass in the LEX. Not sure if using the internal NDs would increase the perception of seeing the ground glass or not, I have not tried it yet.

Some purists believe that using external NDs can result in a better recorded image than using the HVX's internal NDs. Not sure if I agree with that, but I have read plenty of users who that think so.

Best,

Dan
 
In the adapter shootout Tim Naylor and a few others of us did recently we used some external ND filters to better match exposures, and Tim took occasion to point out that the HVX's built in ones have some color shift that his external ones didn't. IIRC the HVX's were slightly reddish by comparison. The others looked decidedly more...uh...neutral.

Not a big, big deal, but quite interesting I thought.
 
Ted Spencer said:
In the adapter shootout Tim Naylor and a few others of us did recently we used some external ND filters to better match exposures, and Tim took occasion to point out that the HVX's built in ones have some color shift that his external ones didn't. IIRC the HVX's were slightly reddish by comparison. The others looked decidedly more...uh...neutral.

Not a big, big deal, but quite interesting I thought.
Click to expand...

Yes, there was that thread and I have seen a few others that claim the same. Probably does allow for finer control too since the NDs are available in so many different stops.

Dan
 
Coming from a photography background, I seriously think that graduated ND is one of the most underused filter and yet it is one of the most important one especially for outdoor shoots. Barring aside the polariser, a graduated ND of differing value could offer the shooter the ability to properly expose the foreground (scenery) while cutting down a few stops of light from the background (sky) (especially for scenery and outdoor shoots). This is the classic "err, which do you expose for moment ?", with graduated ND, you expose for the whole shot in one go.
 
24PFreak:

I totally agree, I use ND grads for almost every exterior with sky in it. It makes a real difference. I wish I had the budget to have ALL of the grades in both soft edged and hard edged but these 4x4 filters get pretty expensive!

I shot scenics all over Scotland last Summer for big project and I think I used an ND grad on almost every exterior shot, they work like magic. Here in California, land of cloudless blue skies, they do make the sky blue instead of washed out gray but it sure would be nice if we had the kinds of beautiful clouds we see in Arizona, Utah and Colorado. I am looking out the window as I type this, nothing but blue skies...boring looking.

Dan
 
Hey Bob,

Yes, was there for a few weeks last year shooting on a feature. I was in Miami, Tampa and Del Ray/West Palm. Yup, Florida is a beautiful state and has much more interesting skies than California.

Best,

Dan
 
The reason you need external ND with 35mm adaptor is when you are shooting outside, and you want a consistant DOF on your 35mm lens. The HVX's ND is not going to help with this, and what is worse, if you stop down the HVX lens, you are going to start seeing your adaptor's ground glass in your shots.

Thus you have to keep the HVX lens at 5.6 (or so) and use ND and the F-stops on your nikons to adjust DOF and exposure.

-tom
 
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