Nanlux Evoke 1200 LED Spot Light

[Teddy_Dem]

Matthew Allard has another one of his very comprehensive reviews on this light:

https://www.newsshooter.com/2021/09/21/nanlux-evoke-1200-led-spot-light-review/

Seems like a pretty good and accurate light albeit a little noisy, which I guess is to expected with current technologies for a light with this output at this price range.

Tangentially related, it looks like Aputure is set to debut what is probably a Light Storm 1200D tomorrow at 3 pm EST:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CUIobdKrtVA/?utm_medium=copy_link

https://www.instagram.com/p/CULHba7Np05/?utm_medium=copy_link

 

[Run&Gun]

Interesting…. But what has cracked me up for the last few years with the LED’s, it’s two steps forward and two steps back. Yeah, they do all this convenient stuff, but some of them are really hard or even impossible to use inside and/or close to talent or a mic, because of the fans either in the head or ballast or both.

 

[ahalpert]

Sort of seems like the primary advantages of LEDs are that you can get small, battery-powered units or that you can (eventually) maximize your output from a single source plugged into a household 20A circuit. I guess you can also use powerful units with batteries, but you're going to need an awful lot of batteries for shoots of any duration

 

[Grug]

Interesting…. But what has cracked me up for the last few years with the LED’s, it’s two steps forward and two steps back. Yeah, they do all this convenient stuff, but some of them are really hard or even impossible to use inside and/or close to talent or a mic, because of the fans either in the head or ballast or both.

Yeah, I get the feeling they really need to turn the COB lights (particularly these larger ones) into BIG, honking heatsinks, keep all of the electronics in the ballasts, and really up the fan technology to the quietest options possible (or even look into water-cooling).

For high output LED keys (ones that are within 12 feet or so of the talent, at least) we still kinda need the panel lights (Skypanel 360s, Nanlux 1200s etc) for the quieter cooling you get when the LEDs aren't so densely packed.

 

[rob norton]

Yeah, I get the feeling they really need to turn the COB lights (particularly these larger ones) into BIG, honking heatsinks, keep all of the electronics in the ballasts, and really up the fan technology to the quietest options possible (or even look into water-cooling).

For high output LED keys (ones that are within 12 feet or so of the talent, at least) we still kinda need the panel lights (Skypanel 360s, Nanlux 1200s etc) for the quieter cooling you get when the LEDs aren't so densely packed.

I nearly wrote on newsshooter that I'd love to see how big a completely silent (or quiet enough) evoke 1200 would be if using either heatsinks alone or heatsinks and smaller fans. I'm guessing it'd be the size of a bath tub. I'm sure it's a fine line for manufacturers where they have commercial failures by going too far in either direction - small, really loud light or ginormous, silent light. The first option at least lets them drum up hype in promo videos where we're only seeing what it looks like vs. a bath tub on a crank stand would need an entirely different, audio-centric and uncool campaign.

People laugh at the size of the larger MOLE LEDs but maybe that's the reality of how big they need to be.

Re liquid cooling, do you remember this thread - https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/production-tools/lighting-gear/375173-cineo-reflex-r15

 

[Run&Gun]

Sort of seems like the primary advantages of LEDs are that you can get small, battery-powered units or that you can (eventually) maximize your output from a single source plugged into a household 20A circuit. I guess you can also use powerful units with batteries, but you're going to need an awful lot of batteries for shoots of any duration

With the small/smaller LED’s, they definitely have that portable/battery powered advantage. But as we get into the larger, more powerful fixtures that everyone has been wanting, you’re losing most of your “LED advantages” over traditional fixtures of that class(except cost, now), because LED’s have about the same 4:1 power/light ratio/advantage of HMI’s. So, if you want that big honkin’ light, like a 1200 HMI equivalent, you’re going to have to plug it in somewhere, because it needs the same amount of power or more, and it’s still gonna be big and heavy. My 600d, with fresnel, which I actually put in the same class as my 800 HMI, actually weighs more, plus has fans in the head and ballast that have to run constantly, on all but the lowest settings, to keep them cool. The HMI is completely passively cooled and can be left unprotected in the worst downpours and keep on working like it was a duck. But the 600d only cost about 1/4 of the 800…. There are pluses and minuses to everything.

 

[Grug]

I nearly wrote on newsshooter that I'd love to see how big a completely silent (or quiet enough) evoke 1200 would be if using either heatsinks alone or heatsinks and smaller fans. I'm guessing it'd be the size of a bath tub. I'm sure it's a fine line for manufacturers where they have commercial failures by going too far in either direction - small, really loud light or ginormous, silent light. The first option at least lets them drum up hype in promo videos where we're only seeing what it looks like vs. a bath tub on a crank stand would need an entirely different, audio-centric and uncool campaign.

People laugh at the size of the larger MOLE LEDs but maybe that's the reality of how big they need to be.

Re liquid cooling, do you remember this thread - https://www.dvxuser.com/forum/production-tools/lighting-gear/375173-cineo-reflex-r15

The R15 is super interesting. The variety of things you can do with LED emitters is pretty fanstastic.

It's interesting as we get up into higher-powered LEDs - I wonder if, with lights like the Evoke, we'll start seeing more Dino-style multi-head arrangements appearing on sets for heavy-firepower needs? That said, as wonderful as the versatility and dimming of these fixtures are - the reality is, when you need maximum output (for balancing to, or recreating exterior sunlight) there's simply no replacement for displacement.

With an M18 for example, the number of times I've ever needed to scrim one down to lower the output, I can literally count on one-hand. Generally when I'm using one, it because I need every last lumen I can squeeze out of a 10amp wall socket.

And the couple of times I've ganged my pair of Forza 500s together (to balance a day interior with hot windows), I inevitably regret not just pulling out the M18 in the first place - one fixture, one set of cables, and considerably more output than a pair of 500w COBs can muster. Which I guess makes the best feature these beefier COBs can offer, the ability to use them in low-light situations as well - potentially saving you having to carry an additional fixture with you to cover those scenarios.

 

[morgan_moore]

I wonder about these lights. Im just worried about spending $000s on stuff that feels like it will not have fast service times, instn really tested and might develop problems, doesnt have a maintaince depot is basically completely unknown

Spening a few $00 on a couple of 200s feels ok and ulitimately is a replacement for my redheads - and a cool upgrade

But moving into replacing rental house lights seems like an odd gamble

 

[Grug]

I wonder about these lights. Im just worried about spending $000s on stuff that feels like it will not have fast service times, instn really tested and might develop problems, doesnt have a maintaince depot is basically completely unknown

Spening a few $00 on a couple of 200s feels ok and ulitimately is a replacement for my redheads - and a cool upgrade

But moving into replacing rental house lights seems like an odd gamble

At $5,400 AUD (compared to $18,000 AUD for an Arri M18), it's really not such a big gamble. LEDs being solid state, makes them remarkably stable compared to most other lighting technologies. And with the sheer volume of LEDs that Nanlite/Aputure have been moving these last couple of years, sourcing parts, and local technicians to perform repairs, isn't such a big deal either. The ballasts/controllers tend to be the things that go bad with LEDs, and fixing them is generally just a matter of replacing a circuit board or a dodgy capacitor.

Perhaps that might be more complicated at times than just replacing an HMI bulb when needed - but, I have to carry around a $500 1800w bulb with my M18 at all times (just in case), and with HMIs it's generally the ballast that plays up anyway.

That said, this thing still can't really touch the M18 for output (it seems to be about a full stop under in total output, which makes it half as bright), and the Arri is workhorse and safe bet at all times (though at more than 3x the price, it bloody well better be!).

 

[morgan_moore]

I dunno - I just smell a fish. Maybe it is a thing here but the rental houses are stupid cheap for m18, and it seems like you are pumping the client..
rent this light..
its more $ per day
it is less bright
spares are unknown
its really flimsy and cant be left out in the rain (?)

client..
Ill stick with the arri thanks

you
end up with $5000 sitting in th shed not making money

now if you have a studio like the other thread and need 10 for the roof, maybe the maths is different but it seems here Bristol UK there is a glut of rental, its all loony cheap and they even deliver to set

but I dodnt want $10k sitting in the shed, Id prefer that in my bank or on maybe something that delivers a look.

As operators, people who carry, we might hate m18 but if you are gaffing for a film shool dp and their 12 yo producer hmi is cool generators are cool, explosions on set are cool.

Ive basically decided there is no money in owner op gaffing which is a shame as its handy income.

 

[ozmorphasis]

I dunno - I just smell a fish. Maybe it is a thing here but the rental houses are stupid cheap for m18, and it seems like you are pumping the client..
rent this light..
its more $ per day
it is less bright
spares are unknown
its really flimsy and cant be left out in the rain (?)

client..
Ill stick with the arri thanks

you
end up with $5000 sitting in th shed not making money

now if you have a studio like the other thread and need 10 for the roof, maybe the maths is different but it seems here Bristol UK there is a glut of rental, its all loony cheap and they even deliver to set

but I dodnt want $10k sitting in the shed, Id prefer that in my bank or on maybe something that delivers a look.

As operators, people who carry, we might hate m18 but if you are gaffing for a film shool dp and their 12 yo producer hmi is cool generators are cool, explosions on set are cool.

Ive basically decided there is no money in owner op gaffing which is a shame as its handy income.

All of this is why I've decided to slow down after getting a 600d, 300d mk2, 300x, and a couple of 60x fixtures. I want the control of more bicolor fixtures and/or prolycht, but in terms of sheer output, I see diminishing returns for owner op by purchasing more and more of the higher power units. They are dirt cheap to rent and as you said M18 are also not expensive to rent, and it's a storage nightmare to just keep adding more and more.

I may eventually replace my daylight only fixtures with either bicolor or full spectrum fixtures, but I don't see myself adding a bunch of 1200w led fixtures as an owner.

I combined three 600d on a triple header rig for a recent shoot where I also needed the flexibility of splitting them up later on the same day. They were like $120 each for rental, with delivery.

As Mark said, it's a pretty noisy affair getting them close to talent, especially once you put three of them together!

 

[rob norton]

At $5,400 AUD (compared to $18,000 AUD for an Arri M18), it's really not such a big gamble.

That said, this thing still can't really touch the M18 for output (it seems to be about a full stop under in total output, which makes it half as bright), and the Arri is workhorse and safe bet at all times (though at more than 3x the price, it bloody well better be!).

Is that how expensive M18s are now? I remember them being around $13k AUD (2017) for the light/ballast/barn doors/cable

Marketing blurred lines aside, the evoke vs. m18 are too far apart to be in the same category. If matching output then you're already doubling the evoke price tag by doubling up on lights.

I haven't done the measurements but just like 2x 600ds will give you a larger footprint in volume than an evoke 1200, I'm assuming the same applies to 2x evoke 1200s/a single m18.

These two light arrays are getting pushed around as a cool feature but they're more a necessary evil to overcome design limitations (and smaller budgets). IMO doubling up on lights for output reasons should be the back up plan, not the standard way of working. Who knows, maybe the multi-head style lights are unavoidable.

(I know there are advantages to the 9-12 light arrays with individual positioning etc, I'm referring specifically to using multiple COB LEDs in place of small-medium HMIs).

 

[ozmorphasis]

Is that how expensive M18s are now? I remember them being around $13k AUD (2017) for the light/ballast/barn doors/cable

Marketing blurred lines aside, the evoke vs. m18 are too far apart to be in the same category. If matching output then you're already doubling the evoke price tag by doubling up on lights.

I haven't done the measurements but just like 2x 600ds will give you a larger footprint in volume than an evoke 1200, I'm assuming the same applies to 2x evoke 1200s/a single m18.

These two light arrays are getting pushed around as a cool feature but they're more a necessary evil to overcome design limitations (and smaller budgets). IMO doubling up on lights for output reasons should be the back up plan, not the standard way of working. Who knows, maybe the multi-head style lights are unavoidable.

(I know there are advantages to the 9-12 light arrays with individual positioning etc, I'm referring specifically to using multiple COB LEDs in place of small-medium HMIs).

I've mostly only seen an advantage of having multiple fixtures when then shoot day requires a variety of setups and the larger number of smaller fixtures offers more flexibility. I'd definitely much rather just deal with the one M18 if I know that's exactly the amount of firepower that's needed and other needs are covered. It's so much cleaner in terms of setup/space, and then of course the multiplier effect from the expanding farm of fixture fans that will be the bane of your recordists day when doing the double/triple header. I've done it and I'm sure I'll do it again, but...

 

[rob norton]

I've mostly only seen an advantage of having multiple fixtures when then shoot day requires a variety of setups and the larger number of smaller fixtures offers more flexibility. I'd definitely much rather just deal with the one M18 if I know that's exactly the amount of firepower that's needed and other needs are covered. It's so much cleaner in terms of setup/space, and then of course the multiplier effect from the expanding farm of fixture fans that will be the bane of your recordists day when doing the double/triple header. I've done it and I'm sure I'll do it again, but...

Haha! Long live the triple headed dragon.

It sounds like you were choosing between a more powerful single light or several smaller lights. Add an M18 in addition to your described shoot day and you have even more flexibility. E.g. replace the 3 header and free up time with that set up and even more time if they're set up in advance elsewhere.

 

[ozmorphasis]

Haha! Long live the triple headed dragon.

It sounds like you were choosing between a more powerful single light or several smaller lights. Add an M18 in addition to your described shoot day and you have even more flexibility. E.g. replace the 3 header and free up time with that set up and even more time if they're set up in advance elsewhere.

Well, yes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHZ48AE3TOI

The one other factor is who is on set, especially when running a skeletal crew where people are doubling up on duties. I don't mind having PA's and non-gaffer experienced camera ops/2nd shooters help with these smaller LED fixtures as more hands are needed from moment to moment, but once you get into HMI territory, nope. I don't want anyone touching it who isn't on the official list of people qualified to deal with it. That said, all of this talk about "cool" lights. Ha! Walking in front of that triple header definitely made you feel like you're getting a sunburn. Tons of heat.

That particular doc day was very complex with no way to have a completely predictable schedule, tons of possible locations, several final locations, and a lot of running around. Then, it was also morbid curiosity. I wanted to see what I would get in a giant all-window space with those three fixtures for future reference.

But yeah, more is more when it comes to available fixtures!

The last piece, that you already alluded to when referring to aiming the individual fixtures is space. The space happened to be huge, but if you want to fill an 8x frame or 12x frame, you can have the triple dragon closer than a single M18.