I have a ***** with the union man. I was uneployed for a bit over xmas and new years because I lost my job to the union man. My boss was doing work for a union hall although we weren't a union company. The union did the job prior to us and botched it badly. However once a few union members got wind that we weren't "Brothers" our contract was terminated. Needless to say it was a low key xmas and new years around here and the job we were doing won't be started until this September cos the union man is too busy! Anyway I'm not here to union bust, I'm just wondering what the unions take on my observations is. My union buddy eats a lot at a non union Macdonalds, seems his food intake is exempt from the Bro rule. His children are looked after by a non union nanny though ther is a union daycare two blocks from his house ( The nanny is way cheaper...Doesn't speak much english) The familly car is repaired by a backyard mechanic for way less than the union dealership....So I'm left wondering about this union thing. Does the whole brotherhood thing come into play only when its is fiancially convenient? Am I wrong in my observations?
My Union Buddy!
- Thread starter Mino
- Start date
Mino,
Sorry to hear that you lost a job for this reason. I have been on both sides of the equation, working four-wall shows where we'd shut down anyone working without papers in our jurisdiction and as a company guy trying to keep the red-tape monkeys in accounting off my back when I favored working stiffs over their margins.
A lot of people - like Walmart's board of directors and above-the-line management for instance - will tell you that there is no need or room for unions anymore. That's a load of crap and Walmart continues to take advantage of their associates at every turn available and imaginable.
Practices including child labor abuses and uncompensated internment occur in countries without organized labor and major US firms consistently utilize these associations until they're caught doing so. Enjoy your weekends? Thank organized labor for that. Glad there are restrictions and protections in place when your kids get their first job at age 15 1/2? Thank unions for that too. If unions continue to erode and disappear into the conservative corporate-friendly fabric of America, you'll quickly see gross abuses return unabated.
Are unions perfect? By no means. Has union inflexibility hurt businesses in some instances? Yes.
In live events and media creation, unions are at the table and that is the way it is. They are working actively and diligently to build experimental contracts and flexibility into their ethic - ostensibly to open more doors and create more leverage in developing and exploiting future jurisdictions.
Where I come from, representation is your ticket to work. In a business that favors above-the-line players and forces twelve and sixteen hour days, you cannot do better than to work through a collective-bargaining agreement. There are simple rules for the employer and compensation benefits for the worker when those rules are ignored or broken.
As a shop steward and head-of-department on concerts, tradeshows and media creation projects, I regularly worked to keep the producer, director or production house appraised of the crew's status for breaks, meals and overtime penalties. A client who had done their homework and came to the table with a professional work attitude and understanding of process-management had an easy time of it, while those who fought guidelines suffered at their own hands.
Creative people love to ask for favors and tend to forget that people who work in major markets day in and day out have seen just about everything and don't place the same measure or degree of emotion into a job. To them, it is work - simply a job that they are paid to do and typically do quite well.
Independent contractors and small companies from markets unfamiliar with union practices often have trouble negotiating unionized waters in major markets because they're used to work-arounds and amortizing flat contracts to the point where their crews are earning below minimum wage or are forced to work without state and federal-mandated breaks to placate their clients.
I'm not playing absolute advocate for organized labor, just expressing that I truly believe that it has a contributory place in our society.
Again, I'm sorry to hear that you've been disenfranchised through labor. Sometimes the very protections for some become the liability of others...
e
Sorry to hear that you lost a job for this reason. I have been on both sides of the equation, working four-wall shows where we'd shut down anyone working without papers in our jurisdiction and as a company guy trying to keep the red-tape monkeys in accounting off my back when I favored working stiffs over their margins.
A lot of people - like Walmart's board of directors and above-the-line management for instance - will tell you that there is no need or room for unions anymore. That's a load of crap and Walmart continues to take advantage of their associates at every turn available and imaginable.
Practices including child labor abuses and uncompensated internment occur in countries without organized labor and major US firms consistently utilize these associations until they're caught doing so. Enjoy your weekends? Thank organized labor for that. Glad there are restrictions and protections in place when your kids get their first job at age 15 1/2? Thank unions for that too. If unions continue to erode and disappear into the conservative corporate-friendly fabric of America, you'll quickly see gross abuses return unabated.
Are unions perfect? By no means. Has union inflexibility hurt businesses in some instances? Yes.
In live events and media creation, unions are at the table and that is the way it is. They are working actively and diligently to build experimental contracts and flexibility into their ethic - ostensibly to open more doors and create more leverage in developing and exploiting future jurisdictions.
Where I come from, representation is your ticket to work. In a business that favors above-the-line players and forces twelve and sixteen hour days, you cannot do better than to work through a collective-bargaining agreement. There are simple rules for the employer and compensation benefits for the worker when those rules are ignored or broken.
As a shop steward and head-of-department on concerts, tradeshows and media creation projects, I regularly worked to keep the producer, director or production house appraised of the crew's status for breaks, meals and overtime penalties. A client who had done their homework and came to the table with a professional work attitude and understanding of process-management had an easy time of it, while those who fought guidelines suffered at their own hands.
Creative people love to ask for favors and tend to forget that people who work in major markets day in and day out have seen just about everything and don't place the same measure or degree of emotion into a job. To them, it is work - simply a job that they are paid to do and typically do quite well.
Independent contractors and small companies from markets unfamiliar with union practices often have trouble negotiating unionized waters in major markets because they're used to work-arounds and amortizing flat contracts to the point where their crews are earning below minimum wage or are forced to work without state and federal-mandated breaks to placate their clients.
I'm not playing absolute advocate for organized labor, just expressing that I truly believe that it has a contributory place in our society.
Again, I'm sorry to hear that you've been disenfranchised through labor. Sometimes the very protections for some become the liability of others...
e
It was a minor setback but I've been working fulltime for a month now so I can say TGIF tomorrow and feel it! If it hadn't been for the presentation I built over Xmas I'd have been up the crick without a paddle though. I forgot to mention about the union another bit that peeves me. When I have to go to the doctors, I go to work first, Leave work in time to get to my apointment, when it's over back to work I go. Not the case with my freind, he gets the whole day off. Total sick days for this boy so far in 2005.....22, and all legal. A cold, broken toe nail, mental stress from domestic dipute....Maybe I'm just jealous.
ChuckS
Veteran
I've been a union editor for 15 years, I haven't worked on a union show in more than 5 of them and neither have most of the other union editors I know.
I think unions in this industry have outlived their usefulness. I make a lot more money negotiating my own wage and enjoy working with non-union employees who love what they do. That's not to say that union workers aren't talented or love what they do, but I have been on a lot of union sets where you really get the sense that half the crew is somebody’s brother-in-law, they didn’t know what they were doing and didn’t want to be there.
Sure, there are examples of companies who have taken advantage of workers – that cuts both ways. Most of the major airlines are going out of business and the cost of labor is directly responsible. When United needed to consolidate with another major airline the unions voted against the transaction and it didn’t happen. Now many of those same people are complaining now that 10’s of thousands of them are out of work. There are three airlines that are very profitable and all three are non-union.
People should be hired for what they know, not because of who they knew to get a union card.
I think unions in this industry have outlived their usefulness. I make a lot more money negotiating my own wage and enjoy working with non-union employees who love what they do. That's not to say that union workers aren't talented or love what they do, but I have been on a lot of union sets where you really get the sense that half the crew is somebody’s brother-in-law, they didn’t know what they were doing and didn’t want to be there.
Sure, there are examples of companies who have taken advantage of workers – that cuts both ways. Most of the major airlines are going out of business and the cost of labor is directly responsible. When United needed to consolidate with another major airline the unions voted against the transaction and it didn’t happen. Now many of those same people are complaining now that 10’s of thousands of them are out of work. There are three airlines that are very profitable and all three are non-union.
People should be hired for what they know, not because of who they knew to get a union card.
Sirius_Doggy
Veteran
Which union are you referring to? Which Local?
Daniel_Runyon
Well-known member
I dont know a lot about how unions work, but I can tell you the one we had at the Cingular Tech Support call center I worked at was next to useless. For one thing, they were super soft negotiators, and it seemed more a pacifier that we had one at all. Secondly, we couldnt strike! How in the hell are you gonna have any leverage if you cant strike? I wanted to form and independent union myself, I'd love to see em stop a group of informal indies from striking! I mean, if all the sudden a major chunk of employees refuse to take calls, what'r they gonna do?
I wasnt there long enough to really know what the deal was (just under two years), but I was told the union heads were "in bed" with managment, and I would guess that went pretty high, beyond the confines of our building (as in on up to ATL headquarters). I can, however, tell you that there was continuous cause for a good ol fashon rebellion. One could never understand the torture of working there without doing it first hand. F a bunch of call center crap. Its the most rigid work environment I've ever experienced. One day, I went to pay my phone bill at the local pharmacy, and the chick at the counter saw my badge and told me I wouldnt believe how many of my fellow workers were on nerve and anti depressant medication as a result of the pressure there. Man, we sure do need more Woody Guthries in the world.
I wasnt there long enough to really know what the deal was (just under two years), but I was told the union heads were "in bed" with managment, and I would guess that went pretty high, beyond the confines of our building (as in on up to ATL headquarters). I can, however, tell you that there was continuous cause for a good ol fashon rebellion. One could never understand the torture of working there without doing it first hand. F a bunch of call center crap. Its the most rigid work environment I've ever experienced. One day, I went to pay my phone bill at the local pharmacy, and the chick at the counter saw my badge and told me I wouldnt believe how many of my fellow workers were on nerve and anti depressant medication as a result of the pressure there. Man, we sure do need more Woody Guthries in the world.
J_Barnes
Veteran
I think there's such a distinct but subtle difference between a union and a professional guild, and it's unfortunate that someone can draw distinctions between them.
For me personally, I don't see much difference between a union, a corperation, a gang or a government. When social efforts are aimed at the lowest common denomonator, you wind up with the lowest possible return. I just think it's unfortunate that the only apparent response to a large oppressive corperation is a large oppressive union. In the end, it seems that it costs the public at large more then anyone.
For me personally, I don't see much difference between a union, a corperation, a gang or a government. When social efforts are aimed at the lowest common denomonator, you wind up with the lowest possible return. I just think it's unfortunate that the only apparent response to a large oppressive corperation is a large oppressive union. In the end, it seems that it costs the public at large more then anyone.