My rant: Am I being underpaid or am I in the right here?

I like to consider myself primarily a lighting cameraman but I direct and I edit. You can have a primary focus and still develop skills beyond that. Look at Soderbergh or Gareth Edwards or the Coen Brothers. I, for one, learn a lot about shooting when I edit. What cuts, what doesn't, how do I keep things moving as if inevitably? I just edited something else someone else shot and it was hugely informative - some good, some bad but I learned a lot.
 
So, I quit. Tonight was the straw that broke the camels back. Tomorrow is the due date for the 27:30 show and I have two segments needing to be cut. After stretching out all of the material to the nth degree, the runtime came out to 25:00; two and a half minutes short to complete the piece. I informed the person in charge and was told "it's your responsibility to create a 27:30 show." I actually just quoted a condensed version of what was said since the responses I usually get are incredibly snarly. I responded with a "it's your responsibility to supply me with ample footage to create a 27:30 show." Long story short, I always get the bare minimum to work with for every damn segment and I have to magician my way out of it and cut numerous corners to make these pieces work. I was told that telling her it's her responsibility was "incredibly rude." I'm not one to burn bridges, but I just couldn't resist: "These weekly segments are costing me about 16 hours of work for $86 after taxes (since I contract). I can't do this anymore. This is my official notice."

Fortunately, I don't even need this job at all and it's all been for side cash. I actually have an interview lined up on Monday for other part-time work that sounds a lot more humanizing than this load of crap. I'm just happy I flushed it down the toilet.
 
Awesome. I mostly gave up those badass responses to. . .well. . .anything a while back. Even when I'm telling people to eff off I tend to do it nicely now. I wish I still had that in me. . .I guess age has tamed me? I dunno.
 
Sounds like it had to happen sooner or later, so you might as well get it over with. Now, work on not putting yourself in a situation like this in the future.
 
Morox said:
I can't do this anymore. This is my official notice.".
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Good for you!

As you start to land better jobs and work with good people you will be surprised this person you used to work for ever called themselves a producer/director or whatever their title. Having well planned and enough material to complete a show IS there responsibility. You can't invent material from the edit bay. Sounds like this person is just lazy/untalented and rely on the talent of others to save them. There are plenty around the trick is avoiding the people who use you to further their careers not the other way around.
 
Josh Bass said:
Awesome. I mostly gave up those badass responses to. . .well. . .anything a while back. Even when I'm telling people to eff off I tend to do it nicely now. I wish I still had that in me. . .I guess age has tamed me? I dunno.
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Hah! Nothing wrong with saying it in the nicest way possible, as I certainly do in times, but I guess we all have a breaking point.

Bassman2003 said:
Sounds like it had to happen sooner or later, so you might as well get it over with. Now, work on not putting yourself in a situation like this in the future.
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No doubt. I have an interview on Sunday for other work. Let's see how that goes...

RatLabProductions said:
Good for you!
As you start to land better jobs and work with good people you will be surprised this person you used to work for ever called themselves a producer/director or whatever their title. Having well planned and enough material to complete a show IS there responsibility. You can't invent material from the edit bay. Sounds like this person is just lazy/untalented and rely on the talent of others to save them. There are plenty around the trick is avoiding the people who use you to further their careers not the other way around.
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Thanks! Having too little to work with has been a problem from day one. I'm 100% sure a lot of it is from lazy shooting. A large percentage of shots I receive are hand held and as you can imagine, there's a lot of shaking and I'm expected to screen grab these and animate them as pictures.

Scott F said:
Hero.
If you truly enjoy this line of work, keep at it. Better things will come down the pike.
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Thanks! And I truly love it.

hscully said:
Congrats on freeing yourself and your valuable time from this oppressive situation. Enjoy the relief!
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I have a nice date tonight with beer.

And I just received a response from them:. "That's unfortunate as we were just discussing about giving you a raise." How convenient, lol. Screw 'em.
 
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I'm really glad you gave them the heave-ho. They truly sound awful, even by modern cheapo craigslist standards.

People like that need to learn that they aren't entitled to slave-labour rates. I want to say that they'll learn from this, but sadly there will be some other person willing to do it for cheap I'm sure.
 
Morox said:
And I just received a response from th:. "That's unfortunate as we were just discussing about giving you a raise." How convenient, lol. Screw 'em.
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It's surprising that adults in this world are this petty. I'm really glad I was raised by parents who weren't like this. This comment would frustrate the heck out of me. Congrats, OP. Hope you find better opportunities!
 
Morox said:
It's where I live. Competition here is very fierce.
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I don't get it, you are not a camera man, you are an editor? Have a drive shipped to you from anywhere in the world. You have to go to the company to do the work, or you work from home?
 
Bassman2003 said:
Sounds like it had to happen sooner or later, so you might as well get it over with. Now, work on not putting yourself in a situation like this in the future.
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iunknown said:
I don't get it, you are not a camera man, you are an editor? Have a drive shipped to you from anywhere in the world. You have to go to the company to do the work, or you work from home?
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I work from home. Wouldn't it be difficult trying to outsource your own work? I've never tried it, but I mean, why would someone from Toronto pay me to edit something when they can do it locally?
 
Paul F said:
It's more proof of the type of people you were dealing with.
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Although they did say we'd have a meeting soon to talk about pay, it seemed too convenient to mention it after I decided to resign. The other owner had me call him and talk about the issue. He's actually a pretty cool guy and he told me they don't want to lose me and the person I told that I was resigning was rather upset with my decision (boo hoo). To not burn bridges, I'm finishing up what I have with them and I'm out. Feels good to get this weight off of my shoulders.
 
If someone in Toronto liked your work samples or attitude or whatever better than anyone else they'd interviewed, THAT'S why they would ship to you and have you do it instead of locally. I know many guys who get paid to fly to different parts of the US and the world to shoot. Of course there are cameramen in those places, but for some reason that particular producer likes that particular cameraman enough to go to that trouble.
 
Morox said:
Although they did say we'd have a meeting soon to talk about pay, it seemed too convenient to mention it after I decided to resign. ...
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Yes, it was too convenient. If they were sincere, they would have paid you a decent wage in the first place; they would not talk to you the way they do; they would have immediately put an offer on the table when you said you quit.
 
Morox said:
I work from home. Wouldn't it be difficult trying to outsource your own work? I've never tried it, but I mean, why would someone from Toronto pay me to edit something when they can do it locally?
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The vast majority of my work comes in from all over the place in the US, Canada, and Japan on hard drives. I rarely have clients set foot in my studio (and when they do it's a mad panic to tidy up!). Granted, I'm doing other post work and not doing much editing where I have to consult with the client in person, but the point is really that if you're good at what you do and develop a good client base they'll accommodate you. A couple Fedex charges can be nothing compared to the other costs or values. I have had clients leave to get the same work done locally, only to call me up and ask for me to do it anyway.
You can make it work, but maybe it's tougher to get established like that.
 
Bassman2003 said:
Whoa Eric, this is not a fair statement. The "market" is the market. No one person is ever responsible for its movement. If you need work, take it...or someone else will. There is no honor in sitting at home because some guy on the internet said not to accept a certain level of pay.

Sadly, this is the current state of our industry People (clients) are spoiled and often expect an awesome project for little money. It is almost to the point of deciding if you even want to be a part of it all at times.

Keep your head up, establish rates you can live with and go find the clients. Maybe try to lower your hours in the current job? You might be over producing for the customer's expectations. If they cry then tell them it will cost more to put more time in. (the amount you are doing now).
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This friends is why there is a union. 100 a day is unacceptable for a technical trade.

You are being taken advantage of.
 
TimurCivan said:
You are being taken advantage of.
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Even if you have to start at the bottom of the ladder doesn't mean you have to that low. Sure, compromise will have to be made at the start, but it's all in the way you'll bring your arguments:
What you have: Equipment, software, skills to operate it, experience, knowledge and time.
They don't have any of that, otherwise, they would do it by themselves.

From there, talk to them, and put that into perspective. They'll probably realize that they want a Porsche for the price of a Hyundai (well, they all do in fact). Maybe you'll have to bill a bit lower than what you would to get certain contracts, but you won't get underpaid like that.


I'm currently doing an edit, a 90sec edit that I shot on 2 days, corporate video. Was doing that as a favor for a friend at first, to add the work to my portfolio mainly. Ended up being paid for it (hopefully, because the organization was -1). From there, got another upcoming contract in October with them. Will have to shoot on 2 days, edit 4 videos of 60 to 90 sec. Roughly 10hours of shooting (split on 2 days) and 5hours of editing. So, they offered me 450$ for all that, which comes down to getting paid 30$/h for 15hours of job. Under the average price in the industry, but if I can get more contracts with them, that's something I can live with.
I see it as some paid-experience contracts that I'll add to my portfolio, and money to get new gear.
 
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