My lighting "Kit"

Rogue Crew

Rogue Crew

Well-known member
I keep reading that it's probably cheaper and makes more sense to make up your own lighting kit rather than order one ready-made, so I did - at least on paper. All prices are from B&H online.

(2) Lowel 250 ProLights..............368.00
w/barndoors, filter frames,
125 & 250 W bulbs
(2) Smith-Victor 600 Softlights......266.00
(1) LTM Pepper 420 Freznel...........300.00
w/barndoors
(5) Bogen 3333 light stands..........235.00

I'm pretty familiar with everything here except the S-V Softlights (a.k.a. "scooplights?), otherwise I'm feeling pretty good about it, but I would still appreciate some feedback about the range on lights, etc.

Thanks
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

Hmmm. Looks like you're spending around $1200 here.

First, as far as Lowel goes, the Pro-Light is about the only light they make that I actually kind of like. It's not necessarily the best, but at least it's a usable instrument.

I looked at those S-V's on B&H's site. Those aren't "scoops", they're more like ziplights. Now, S-V makes some very inexpensive stuff -- very, very inexpensive. But I have some, and it's a step above junk. Not much of a step above. Those particular softlights don't look like the worst thing in the world, but they're likely going to be of limited value. For a light to be soft, it needs to be BIG. The key #1 point about a softlight is size. Diffusion placed in front of a light is there to spread the light around and make a larger surface. Those S-V ziplights have an aperture of just 7" x 9"... very small. They'll be softer than the prolight, but not all that much. Like I said, they'd be of limited use.

The LTM Pepper is a great light. A little pricey considering it's only 420 watts max, but it's by far the best product on your list so far.

You're also not counting a case, which, unless you're setting up in a studio, you're going to need to haul all this stuff in. Lowel's kits usually include a case that fits everything. And I don't know how you're set for grip gear, mafers, flags, that sort of stuff...

Let me make some alternate suggestions as to how you could spend $1200.
First, for tungsten hard lights, I'd skip the Lowels and instead go with a couple of B&M 650's. They're $240 each brand new, include barn doors, they're fully focusable fresnels, and can take 650 or 300w lamps. Get them from ebay seller pyramid-films.

Instead of the pepper, I'd consider getting a B&M Mac Lite 200. In fact, I'd probably get two of them. They're $185 each, new, fully focusable fresnels and include barn doors. A lot less expensive, and while they don't pack the punch of a 420w pepper, you typically don't need that much punch for a hairlight, and if you can afford it, I think the flexibility of having two of them will far outweigh the additional lamp power of the pepper (plus, if you put the two MacLites side-by-side, they'd deliver 400 watts anyway). To try to stay on-budget at $1200 I'll only factor in one light.


Instead of anything smith-victor, for affordable softlights you could look at the JTL Everlights. Those will give you two genuine softlights, with 2' x 2' softboxes, for about 10x the surface area of the s-v's, giving you much more usable soft light. The Everlights will include a case, softboxes, light heads and stands, and a 2-light kit goes for $375. One nice feature is that you can pull the softbox off and use it as an open-face hardlight, which you can't do with a ziplight. Ebay seller jandkgroup sells 'em brand new, 2-light kits for $375. Here's a link:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3805905865&category=3860

People speak highly of the JTL stands, so that'd leave you with wanting three stands. I have primarily Avenger/Bogen stands, I like 'em, they're great. Don't have any familiarity with the 3333, but let's assume it's a good product, three of those puts you at about $135.

So, two B&M 650's = $480; one MacLite 200 = $185; two JTL Everlight softlights = $375; and three stands = $135, for a grand total of... drum roll please... $1175. Hey, pretty cool, came in about on-budget.

I think you'd find this combination of gear would be a lot more rugged, professional, and versatile than Lowel or Smith-Victor stuff. It will be a lot bigger (if size is a concern) and you'll still need some grip & light-control gear, but this would be a fairly decent five-light kit that could accomodate lighting a wide variety of scenes.
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

I posted the above on another site as well, have had other responses and am now convinced that the S-V's have gotta go and that a slightly different JTL Everlite Softkit is the way to go there. 2 heads, 24" soft boxes, stands, cases plus a 10' boom with stand and weights for $440. I was going to buy this stand/boom anyway ($150), so for me it nets out at $360 for the whole kit or even under $300 since there are a couple of cases I don't have to buy.

But let me ask why a Lowel fixtures seem to bother you so much - and I should note that it's not just you. It seems that folks either love them or hate them. I was on one forum recently with a well-respected moderator where there was almost blood-letting on the subject. I know they're not made like tanks, but they are light and portable and some of the designs are quite clever. Because I had decided to replace the S-V's with softboxes, I was also considering replacing the Pepper with a Lowel Fren-L 650 fresnel, but your comments from yesterday kept running around in my head, so I thought I'd check back.

If I made the change, my kit would be:

Key/fill - LTM softboxes
Back/background - Lowel fresnel
Poppers - Lowel ProLights

And I thought I had this all worked out! Good thing I didn't put my whole 'Poor Man's Portable Studio' list here.
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

Au contraire, I'm not bothered by Lowels nearly as much as some people. I've got a few in my kit, I think I have a Pro-light and a couple of V-lights.

They work. They're not bad. But they're way too expensive for what they are, and everyone seems to think they're cheap. They're not. Lowel makes a hundred million little add-ons and gadgets, and they charge top dollar for all of 'em.

They do have some interesting design features, mainly all around minimizing size. I think the CaseLite is a very intriguing design.

All I'm saying is, you'll likely never see a Lowel instrument on a professional set. There are reasons. The stands are horrible, and everything about Lowel is kind of their own way of doing things. Everyone else in the industry has adopted a certain style, whether it be a fresnel or a ziplight or whatever, but Lowel is on their own path. And for a miniature light kit, it's not a bad path. But you can do better, that's all. Like I said, if your goal is small size and portability, Lowel is a good choice.

It's kind of like with cars -- every car has a steering wheel on the driver's side, a gas & brake pedal at your feet, and a hand-operated gear shifter. But if Lowel designed the car, maybe you'd steer with your knees and shift gears with your teeth or something. Who knows, it may even be a "better" way to do it -- but it's not the way things are "done".

I like the Pro-Light, I think it's a pretty good little instrument. I bid on 'em when I see 'em on ebay, I'd like to have a set of four or five. But I'd pay a lot more for a Pepper 200. Haven't use the Fren-L.

The LTM's aren't exactly rugged industry-standard either -- they're actually a little bit of a pain in the booty to use. They take a while to set up, and they have these cooling flaps on the side that let light leak and spray everywhere. But, for the price they are just unbeatable. And the size, while smaller than one might prefer, is not bad: 24 x 24 inches is an okay size. With soft light, bigger is always better. But for shooting on a budget, you just can't beat 'em. Watch out for the eggcrate though, apparently they charge quite heavily for eggcrate material.
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

[quote author=sfogden link=board=lighting;num=1080542145;start=0#3 date=03/29/04 at 20:43:46]You can lead a horse to water. . . ::)
[/quote]


I understand the expression, but I don't understand why you used it here.
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

Yeah, what Barry says... :P

iJack,

The first thing I'd like to know is what purpose you have for the 10' boom? Do you see this as something you'd lug around on most shoots? There are easier, simpler, cheaper methods of rigging lights in place... (i.e. scissor clamps, mafer clamps, C-clamps with 5/8" studs, on and on and on...).

IMHO, booms don't really hold that much weight and are big bulky, clumsy things. Unless it will be used in a studio for tabletop stuff it is a low priority item. Most cheap booms ($110 price range) I've ever seen are broken in one way or another and had to be rigged by the owners.

Check into Matthews Studio Equipment or American Grip, Inc. Look into C-stands and 4x4 gel frames, too.

For the amount of money you were planning to spend, Barry Green has advised you well.

BTW, Lowel lights are OK... but that's about the highest praise I can give them.

I have a Tota kit, a DP with a Chimera ring, and an Omni. Like Barry said they have their place - small size, portability.

One problem I've had with Lowel lights is their cords get insanely hot especially where they plug into the fixtures. Eventually they just kinda fall apart from the heat damage. I've had to buy more than one replacement cord in my life.

FWIW, I also have some Arri fixtures that I purchased in '97 before they made kits. At that time you could buy fixtures, etc. but they didn't have any kits available.

So, I bought (2) 650W fresnels and (2) 300W fresnels that I haul around in two stackable Rubbermaid tubs lined with thick cardboard. Not the toughest or safest solution but a much smaller footprint than those freakin' mammoth cases they build.

When the kits came out... about six months after I bought my lights... I checked with B&H on the price of a case only. Get this... it's $500!

I've decided to keep using my tubs for the time being. ;)

Personally, I'd rather see Arri offer smaller two-light kits so they would be more portable with (presumably) smaller cases... and smaller price tag. That way I could have two of them and stack them however I need them or take one and leave the other behind on a small, quick shoot.

And while I'm feelin' it... LTM Pepper fresnels have some design problems. As mentioned by Barry... they spill light and they, like the Lowels, get extremely '****ing' hot.

Wow, thanks Anartiste! That felt liberating. ;D

Guaranteed blister if you make accidental contact with a Pepper.

You better get good at replacing porcelain sockets and wiring if you buy them.

The only good things about them... they're small and good for portability and hiding in small corners of a set.

If you buy the lights you're thinking of I believe you will still have that feeling that you wish you could have stepped up to a more professional arsenal of equipment. (a li'l buyer's remorse.)

Do yourself a favor... look into the fixtures Barry has recommended.

I mean, if you're planning on spending $1,200 you can have much better gear.

TL
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

Arri 650 fresnels... bomb proof, and almost the perfect design.

There is a reason you will never find them on ebay, and if you do , people get so excited to see them there you end up bidding more than retail for them.

I have heard good things about NRG's 3 light 1800w focus kit as well.
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

Plastic tubs for hauling gear... that's where it's at. $5 for those 12-gallon folding-lid jobs, cram all your gear in, stack 'em high!
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

I guarantee my tubs are much less "crammed" than those big, honkin' Arri cases. ;)

Obviously, I would not fly with them in tubs. But, I'll damn sure put them in the back of my Jeep Cherokee in those things and have more room available for other gear (i.e. camera jib, production monitor, C-stands, flags, stingers, and my three DV cameras in their individual Porta-Brace bags).

Again, I bought my Arri fresnels BEFORE they even offered kits.

When the kits were announced I checked the price for one... $500!

To that I say, "Long live Rubbermaid!".
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

[quote author=Terry_Lasater link=board=lighting;num=1080542145;start=0#6 date=03/30/04 at 21:54:54]I'd like to know is what purpose you have for the 10' boom?[/quote]

I had said that I was going to buy it anyway, but I want it as a mic boom primarily, not for lighting, though I can use it for bounce boards and the like.

Now I'm thinking
JTL Softkit
(1) ProLight
(2) Altman 650-L fresnels
I can always pop a 300W into one of the Altmans if I need another small back light.

Before I posted my first message at the top, I was happy in my ignorance, now I'm less ignorant, but I'm really depressed.
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

Perhaps, but think how much happier you'll be with quality gear, instead of how unhappy you'd be the first time somebody said "dude, what'd you buy that stuff for?" :)
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

wood.jpg


Nothing like a couple 12k hmi's. :P
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

Has anyone used the 1000w JTK softbox unit? It has a cooling fan that runs at 65 db...

The extra watts come in handy if you want to gel the softbox or put some distance between the subject and the light... but the fan can be a dealbreaker...

And what about an eggcrate?

Any ideas?

Raoul
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

65db??!??! That can't be right, can it?

Sheesh, a Krasnogorsk or a Konvas camera run at about 55db, and they're louder than you can imagine. I can't imagine a fan at 65db, it'd sound like a jet airplane! ;)

In any case, for video work you definitely don't want the lights with the fans in them.
 
Re: My lighting "Kit"

[quote author=Jarred Land link=board=lighting;num=1080542145;start=0#7 date=03/30/04 at 22:44:30]I have heard good things about NRG's 3 light 1800w focus kit as well.[/quote]

Jarred,
The price is certainly attractive @ $500 from B&H. While I was at the NRG web site, I ran across another kit - "NRG Location-Pro Lighting" - which appears to use a different, more controllable head and also attractively priced. Do you know anything about these?
 
Re: My lighting "Kit" / pt 2

Re: My lighting "Kit" / pt 2

Wow! My brain hurts!!
I too, a poor-man trying to do rich man things, am trying to put together a light kit for use with shooting short films on dvx 100a's and am OVERWHELMED by the choices I need to make alone! ??? just a minor vent there, whew!

Would the Dedo's be a better deal than the B&M's; Fresnels instead of softboxes? Small but powerful and use with larger diffusion instead of getting a bigger bulkier light.

I want to put together a portable package (BTW - the rubbermaids sound great, would need to know ways to rig them) Something that 5 or less people could rig most of the time without a generator (again: most of the time) to use with power found by running stingers; somewhat guerilla; nothing exotic about my setups (I'll rent to supplement when needed) but I want to own a package worthy of supplementing! Like was stated in a previous reply, I don't want someone saying "Why did you buy that!?"

As pros, what would you guys ALWAYS have each day minimum (if you were me)? I know each shooting circumstance is different, but assuming I could creatively use 'what I have' without spending alot ($3000 or less, including all the grip equip. I need, and accessories) I am probably asking too much, I sometimes do that. (But would be a valuable search item later - hehe ;) )

p.s. I'll stop now, but if you like, what access. go w/ this pkg - I'm new
 
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