My first try at actual cinematography...

MatthewC

MatthewC

Well-known member
Hey,

I was helping my brother out with a quick short video for our church, and he wanted me to help out, directing and filming.

Well, I decided I'd actually try to incorporate some things I'd been reading about in a few books, and really REALLY paying attention to movies, watching how they move, etc. I'd been studying for a few months here but hadn't tested them all out, until now, as I was waiting for a DVX100A to test them out on.

This is a pretty poor like consumer Canon DV camera. I didn't attempt lighting or script, as we wanted to shoot it in under two hours. No big audio or anything either, as it's just a quick project my brother will use at his church on Sunday.

I'd love to know what you think, what could be improved on, etc. It was very hard to hold steady, because it's so light. I can't wait to use a proper dolly/crane, but I'm sure you can see where I attempted those shots. :-)

PS: Also, I know the video isn't cut off at the end, as it should be. I sorta threw this up.

NEW HOST
http://www.desktopgamer.com/church1.wmv
 
You need to host the file someplace else... it's too tricky to get to.
 
Jim Kilgour said:
You need a tripod.
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Yeah, I have one, but I wanted to try a few moving shots, even though I knew they wouldn't be smooth. I guess I should've stuck it to the bottom as a counterweight, but I wasn't expecting this movie to be all that nice, it took less than two hours. I was thinking I could've done it all properly, done cuts to the people faces as they were doing talking, etc. and had a few still shots, but I wanted to try active shots. I was just hoping that some of the movie shots would look decent and made sense within the scene.
 
I understood what you were going for and considering the situation it looked decent... For somebody in your position I would strongly suggest that you get a Bogen monopod... you can get a decent one for $37. Then go to a fitness store and get two 1.25 lb weights... cost $3 tops. Tape or otherwise affix these to the bottom of the monopod... the little rubber foot pulls off. This will give you a very nice, adjustable steady-device that is also super handy just as a monopod. So all you're really buying for stable shots is $3 worth of weights. All that was handheld right? I mean 100% just cam in hands? I doubt anybody on these boards would attempt that. The weighted monopod will blow you away though... if you still try just as hard to be smooth then the weighted pod will take care of the rest.

2.5 lbs was for a Sony TRV17 (my first cam) so if you have a newer miniDV that's really small then I'm sure you can get by with 1.25-2 lbs total.

That's what I used on this day just jackassing around with some friends... this video is pointless and stupid but I just wanted to test my ability to be smooth with my cheapy cam-rig CLICK When you see how well it could handle 2-3' bumps in a boat you can imagine how much you can smooth basic handheld on land.
 
MattinSTL said:
I understood what you were going for and considering the situation it looked decent... For somebody in your position I would strongly suggest that you get a Bogen monopod... you can get a decent one for $37. Then go to a fitness store and get two 1.25 lb weights... cost $3 tops. Tape or otherwise affix these to the bottom of the monopod... the little rubber foot pulls off. This will give you a very nice, adjustable steady-device that is also super handy just as a monopod. So all you're really buying for stable shots is $3 worth of weights. All that was handheld right? I mean 100% just cam in hands? I doubt anybody on these boards would attempt that. The weighted monopod will blow you away though... if you still try just as hard to be smooth then the weighted pod will take care of the rest.

2.5 lbs was for a Sony TRV17 (my first cam) so if you have a newer miniDV that's really small then I'm sure you can get by with 1.25-2 lbs total.

That's what I used on this day just jackassing around with some friends... this video is pointless and stupid but I just wanted to test my ability to be smooth with my cheapy cam-rig CLICK When you see how well it could handle 2-3' bumps in a boat you can imagine how much you can smooth basic handheld on land.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I want to build my own Steadicam oneday, but I dont need to at this time. I wasn't going to take that much time to get ready for this movie, but I know about making one and I do plan on using one, once I get my DVX. This was just a quick movie that I knew wasn't going to be steady, I wasn't too concerned. My real concern is whether those shots were appropriate for the situation, or if the execution(besides being shaky) wouldve worked if I was actually making a good movie and putting time into it. Basically, was my choice of shots and movements okay?

Thanks all the input so far.
 
Loved it! Fantastic! I wouldn't change a thing.

Matthew - I've noticed that with almost everyone who has offered you suggestions, you are quick to explain away why you didn't use their advice. Then, you keep asking for more input(?). It seems like you already know everything that has been offered. :huh:
 
Terry_Lasater said:
Loved it! Fantastic! I wouldn't change a thing.

Matthew - I've noticed that with almost everyone who has offered you suggestions, you are quick to explain away why you didn't use their advice. Then, you keep asking for more input(?). It seems like you already know everything that has been offered. :huh:
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I'm sorry. My intention wasn't to shoot down their advice at all. I just felt like the original area of critiscm I wanted being done on it wasn't getting hit. I wasn't getting the answers I was looking for, as I don't think I explained specifically enough what I was looking for advice on, which was the shot choice. I asked for advice in any area, when I should've pinpointed it, but I do thank you for all the advice given.
I should've been more specific. I did know it was going to be shaky and I did know I should've used a tripod, but it was something I decided not to do, as I wasn't too worried about this little church project. I should've stated that at the beginning, and I think I might get a little defensive because I feel that if I didn't know it already, I would've looked really stupid. I did know what was wrong with it, but by not saying it out loud at the beginning, it just sorta makes me look like I don't know what I'm doing, and while I may not for the most part, it sure makes me feel better if I don't look like I'm a newb.
If that made any sense.


Sorry for the rant. I can't wait to get my own DVX and do shots like those, but steady with my own handycam. I'm going to build a dolly/crane combo also.
Simply put, if the above chosen shots and angles, and the 2/3 rule are looking tight, besides the shakyness, I'm happy.
 
Dude putting a weight on a stick is not building a steady cam... it's $3.

I'd be open to some dirt cheap 10 minute projects if you want input on your work. You're playing both sides to dismiss the importance of the project for it's intended audience and then asking for criticism on the quality and artistic choices.

If you want the 24 look or the Arrested Development look or the Cops look... you want a dynamic cam with some burst zooms on facial expressions etc... but it's got to be smooth while it looks live... it's hard to describe but the little vibrations or quick shakes that you get by going purely handheld do not enhance the feeling of "being" there like a smooth dynamic cam does... the quick shakes and bumps remind the viewer that they are looking through a video camera.

It's all good though... I was just trying to help you out in a way that would only cost you a few bucks... if that stuff isn't important to you that's cool too. I think you should look into that stuff though... just for your own growth.
 
MattinSTL said:
Dude putting a weight on a stick is not building a steady cam... it's $3.

I'd be open to some dirt cheap 10 minute projects if you want input on your work. You're playing both sides to dismiss the importance of the project for it's intended audience and then asking for criticism on the quality and artistic choices.

If you want the 24 look or the Arrested Development look or the Cops look... you want a dynamic cam with some burst zooms on facial expressions etc... but it's got to be smooth while it looks live... it's hard to describe but the little vibrations or quick shakes that you get by going purely handheld do not enhance the feeling of "being" there like a smooth dynamic cam does... the quick shakes and bumps remind the viewer that they are looking through a video camera.

It's all good though... I was just trying to help you out in a way that would only cost you a few bucks... if that stuff isn't important to you that's cool too. I think you should look into that stuff though... just for your own growth.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm definately going to be using your idea, I wasn't meaning to say I wouldn't. I think I'll build the $3 one for the camera I'm using, then build a hardcore heavier duty one when I get my DVX. I'll definately use your idea. :-)


Yeah, I watch The Shield and Arrested Development and I notice they use burst zooms all the time, I tried it when the guy couldn't get his truck unlocked but it was sooooo slow. I really like dynamic camera work and would love to try and use it some more in my stuff. Yeah, shakyness doesn't really add anything to the picture and it is the one thing that really pulls me out when I watch my own footage.

I plan to start a 10 minute weekly show, using the handheld steadycam style stuff like Arrested Development, and any short films I make will probably be more cinematic, using the type of shots I used in this one.
 
I think one of the most under-used features of the DVX is the manual zoom... there's a little switch under the lens for "servo" or "manual" and on manual you can use one finger to do a 24 or Arrested Development zoom. After you do just a couple of them you even know exactly how much to flick your finger to end up right where you want to be. I just got into experimenting with this THIS year... and it's like a whole new camera. This definitely makes 24 style shooting possible.
 
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