MY FIRESTORE Experience

C

Cut2muz

Active member
i just wanted to post a note on this forum about purchasing the Firestore FS-100. We are leaving May 13th for a month long shoot and I have been trying to get one since mid-March. Through this forum I was able to make contact with David Linetski, the president of Spec-Comm and he put me in contact with his sales person. They reserved me a Firestore, shipped it to me the day it came in and I now have it. As well, Lorenzo at Focus Enhancments has been invaluable in helping me find additional batteries and the new camera cradle and a great attitude to boot. It looks very cool, well made and tells me it has 111 minutes available of DVCPro HD recording time available. Now I just have to figure this thing out. Will report back tomorrow after a night with it.

Don Wilson
AmericanaMediaInc.com
 
My personal expirence so far has not been exceptional. The manual does not really tell you that much and I had to figure out how to get the thing to record off the HVX on my own. I don't even know if I am doing it exactly right but hey it's working! I have only been able to get the thing to record while in local mode ( I have to press the record button on the FS-100 ) and not in tapeless mode ( press record on the camera ). I think that focus should probably stick this thing in the hands of some people who have never used an FS DTE recorder before and then write the manual based on the problems that those people have. Other than that I do love seeing that '111 minutes' available message!
 
the amount of store time is nice, i was looking at buying one, but 1 reason stopped me. A rep told me it only can record in interlace mode, which would be fine for me if I were shooting docs or weddings, but since I want that cinematic look, i decided to go with the cards since they allow me to use every option on the camera. I have a P2 store that holds only about 20-30 gigs less than the firestore, but I am loving it.
 
Well, the rep was wrong. It just doesn't record native data yet, but does record progressive. We had a problem with ours and had to send it back to the vendor, but they (Spec Comm) totatlly stepped up to the plate and sent us a replacment out right away. The battery is tough to get on and off and we need to find a fix for it as we've ordered more batteries and forsee changing in the field often. It really takes some effort to get it on and even more to get it off. After a test run this weekend I'll report back with a real-world report.

Don Wilson
AmericanaMediaInc.com
 
Richard,

I was about ready to try it and thought I had figured it out, but the unit would not re-charge and I had to send it back. I get my replacment tomorrow. Reading the manual and understanding how the camera thinks, it seems pretty straight-forward, but I read previous postings stating it was not working so I am very curious. I'll report back asap and will try that first thing. Are you having problems getting it to work?

Don
 
Between the two... CINEPORTER ALL THE WAY!!

Here is my reason why.

1. Cineporter captures natively, which saves space. Although they say the Firestore will eventually capture natively, the Cineporter is a guarentee that you can do it once you get it.
2. Cineporter costs the same as Firestore but has more gigs. Firestore is 2k for 100gb while Cineporter is 2k for 160gb.
3. Cineporter uses same batteries as HVX (I think). This was a big deal to me because the Firestore uses special batteries that only last 90 minutes! I CANT STRESS THAT ENOUGH... ONLY 90 MINUTES! Sorry... it just bugs me that the battery is so short. I think the battery should last for a minumum of time it takes to fill the drive and dump it, but that's just me. You can carry $500 dollars in 2 kinds of batteries hoping that you have enough of both, or you can carry $500 in batteries that are universal. I choose universal.
4. Cineporter is (theortically) hotswappable. If the Cineporter tricks the HVX into thinking that it's a giant P2 card, theoretically, you can have 2 cineporters in both P2 slots, and swap them out when 1 is full while you are recording.
5. Cineporter is safer. You can have 2 drives in 1 cineporter unit and set it to record the same thing into both drives (not available on release date). The Firestore, being only 1 drive, has no chance of being so safe.
6. Cineporter batteries are hotswappable, meaning you can record and change the batteries without stopping! Firestore cant touch that.

I can't think of anything else.

The only thing the Firestore has on the Cineporter is that it's out NOW! so if you need one now then you have no choice but to get the Firestore. If you can wait for a date that hasn't even been announced yet, then the Cineporter is the way to go.
 
I too agree about the CinePorter unless you need something right away. The Focus tech support hasn't returned two of my calls yet and Spec-Comm, the makers of CinePorter and sellers of the Firestore, had the issue handled and the unit replaced in the meantime. Plus, David from Spec-Comm has quite a long Sticky thread going here where he asks for input from those of us who need a hard drive solution.....now how cool is that! For years, Avid designers and engineers didn't seem to care what we editors had to say and as a result other edit systems had a hungry and willing market. Plus, we need to support the smaller inventor companies and I do believe that they will be much more willing to modify their product as we users need, and as the market changes. The Firestore seems to be a solid device though I have already had to return mine for what I hope is a fluke of a problem. It has its advantages but I will own a CinePorter as soon as they ship em'. I just hope that is sooner than later.

Don Wilson
AmericanaMediaInc.com
 
morisato said:
Between the two... CINEPORTER ALL THE WAY!!

Here is my reason why.

1. Cineporter captures natively, which saves space. Although they say the Firestore will eventually capture natively, the Cineporter is a guarentee that you can do it once you get it.
2. Cineporter costs the same as Firestore but has more gigs. Firestore is 2k for 100gb while Cineporter is 2k for 160gb.
3. Cineporter uses same batteries as HVX (I think). This was a big deal to me because the Firestore uses special batteries that only last 90 minutes! I CANT STRESS THAT ENOUGH... ONLY 90 MINUTES! Sorry... it just bugs me that the battery is so short. I think the battery should last for a minumum of time it takes to fill the drive and dump it, but that's just me. You can carry $500 dollars in 2 kinds of batteries hoping that you have enough of both, or you can carry $500 in batteries that are universal. I choose universal.
4. Cineporter is (theortically) hotswappable. If the Cineporter tricks the HVX into thinking that it's a giant P2 card, theoretically, you can have 2 cineporters in both P2 slots, and swap them out when 1 is full while you are recording.
5. Cineporter is safer. You can have 2 drives in 1 cineporter unit and set it to record the same thing into both drives (not available on release date). The Firestore, being only 1 drive, has no chance of being so safe.
6. Cineporter batteries are hotswappable, meaning you can record and change the batteries without stopping! Firestore cant touch that.

I can't think of anything else.

The only thing the Firestore has on the Cineporter is that it's out NOW! so if you need one now then you have no choice but to get the Firestore. If you can wait for a date that hasn't even been announced yet, then the Cineporter is the way to go.
Click to expand...

Not that I disagree, but let me debate for the Firestore...
According to your answers...
#1 Native recording. OK, so the Firestore will do this in the future, so how is the Cineporter at an advantage here? Because it will have it at release? So, when is it going to be released? No date yet? So Firestore MIGHT actually have a native solution working before Cineporter even comes out.
#3 They make a 180 minute battery. Of course, investing in proprietary batteries that don't work in other devices too does suck. But, like I said there is a bigger battery solution.
#4 Firestores can be daisy chained for longer recording. With a recording time over 100 minutes though, I don't think this is really an issue either way.
#5 Great point. BUT, how much will that version cost? You are now comparing a $2000 product with maybe a $3000 product (my speculative price on the dual-hard drive version). Also, what will that do to the battery life? Running two hard drives at once? How about weight of the unit, and heat it generates, when you have 2 hard drives.

With all of that said, I would probably get the Cineporter over the Firestore if they were both available now. BUT, they aren't. So I have a Firestore coming in tommorow. When the Cineporter comes out I will reevaluate the situation and maybe make the jump over to Cineporter.

One last thing... I don't think the Firestore will lose much value over the next 6 months. So, if you buy one now, and then decide to sell it when Cineporter comes out, you probably could get almost all of your money back for the Firestore if sold on eBay. For example, I've been using a P2 Store from day 1. Now that I ordered a Firestore, I sold my P2 Store on eBay and actually made a little money. So basically, I just got to use a P2 Store for a few months at no cost to me.
 
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MrPolarBare said:
Not that I disagree, but let me debate for the Firestore...
According to your answers...
#1 Native recording. OK, so the Firestore will do this in the future, so how is the Cineporter at an advantage here? Because it will have it at release? So, when is it going to be released? No date yet? So Firestore MIGHT actually have a native solution working before Cineporter even comes out.
#3 They make a 180 minute battery. Of course, investing in proprietary batteries that don't work in other devices too does suck. But, like I said there is a bigger battery solution.
#4 Firestores can be daisy chained for longer recording. With a recording time over 100 minutes though, I don't think this is really an issue either way.
#5 Great point. BUT, how much will that version cost? You are now comparing a $2000 product with maybe a $3000 product (my speculative price on the dual-hard drive version). Also, what will that do to the battery life? Running two hard drives at once? How about weight of the unit, and heat it generates, when you have 2 hard drives.

With all of that said, I would probably get the Cineporter over the Firestore if they were both available now. BUT, they aren't. So I have a Firestore coming in tommorow. When the Cineporter comes out I will reevaluate the situation and maybe make the jump over to Cineporter.

One last thing... I don't think the Firestore will lose much value over the next 6 months. So, if you buy one now, and then decide to sell it when Cineporter comes out, you probably could get almost all of your money back for the Firestore if sold on eBay. For example, I've been using a P2 Store from day 1. Now that I ordered a Firestore, I sold my P2 Store on eBay and actually made a little money. So basically, I just got to use a P2 Store for a few months at no cost to me.
Click to expand...

#1 You are wrong to say that the FireStore will do this in the future. They are working on it but there are no guarentees. The Cineporter has already been reported in doing so, and that is the true advantage. The ease of knowing the product you chose will record natively. So until the FireStore actually does record natively, a guarenteed natively recording product has an advantage here.
#3 I am aware that there is a 180 battery, but the fact that it's not the stock battery sucks. You cant really do much with the 90 battery alone, so you will be forced to buy a 180 battery.
#4 Yes, FireStore can be daisy chained, but it's like the arguement between 2 4gb cards and 1 8gb card. With 2 4gb cards, there isnt downtime. With 1 8gb card you are forced with downtime. I cant see why having 1 8gb card is better than having 2 4gb card. If you like the downtime, then treat your 2 4gb cards as 1 and offload them after both are full. Having 2 4gb cards just gives you the extra option of having the "no down time" workflow. Also, 2 4gb cards are cheaper (1200 vs 1400).
#5 I'm comparing the FireStore with the Cineporter. #5 is arguing that the Cineporter has capability of being safer, while the FireStore is hopeless to the possibility. Battery life might be an issue, but seeing how your batteries are the same as the HVX, you basically lose juice to your recording device and drive at the same rate, versus having 2 kinds of batteries with the possibility of having tons of HVX juice, but none to power your storage device. Heat shouldnt be an issue, otherwise they wouldnt release the product if it was unstable. And if we are comparing a 2 hard drive Cineporter to a 2 harddrive FireStore (daisy chained), I would guess that the weight would be about the same but the Cineporter would have the added advantage of having the weight central instead of back heavy.

EDIT: Actually, I would think that 2 FireStores would be heavier than 2HDD Cineporter because a 2HHD Cineporter would be a Cineporter + 2.5 HDD. 2 FireStores has an extra shell and charged battery.
 
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morisato said:
#1 You are wrong to say that the FireStore will do this in the future. They are working on it but there are no guarentees. The Cineporter has already been reported in doing so, and that is the true advantage. The ease of knowing the product you chose will record natively. So until the FireStore actually does record natively, a guarenteed natively recording product has an advantage here.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but you see the flip side of this argument too, right? We could take your same argument and say: "but the firestore is out NOW, and the cineporter may or may not ever make it to market." A guaranteed working on-the-market product beats a promised someday product every single time.

Not saying anything about whether the cineporter would have issues or not, but -- if you're going to poke at one for not having a feature now, you have to also recognize that anything can happen between now and the proposed cineporter release date. Don't forget that the firestore for the HD100 was supposed to be out last April, it was 11 months late.

If you need a hard disk recorder today, there's only one choice that's actually out now. Whether it can record pN mode or not, at least it's here and recording.

#3 I am aware that there is a 180 battery, but the fact that it's not the stock battery sucks. You cant really do much with the 90 battery alone, so you will be forced to buy a 180 battery.
Click to expand...
Battery complaints are understood, but factor in something else: a DVX battery weighs more than the entire Firestore product! Obviously the firestore is engineered to be a lightweight unit. A single 5400mah DVX/HVX battery weighs more than an entire FS-100 including its built-in battery.

I'm no fan of the lightweight 90-minute battery used on the FS-100, but I do recognize that there was a thought process that went into designing it. It's supposed to be a small lightweight unit.

but seeing how your batteries are the same as the HVX, you basically lose juice to your recording device and drive at the same rate, versus having 2 kinds of batteries with the possibility of having tons of HVX juice, but none to power your storage device.
Click to expand...
I don't follow you at all on this one. Unless the cineporter draws exactly the same amount of power as the HVX, you're definitely going to have a situation where one runs out of battery power before the other does. Maybe way sooner. Just because it's using the same physical type of battery, that doesn't mean they'll last the same amount of time.


Here's the deal: the cineporter looks like it has a very intelligent design, with a lot of very interesting features.

The Firestore looks to me like it has its share of issues. I don't like a lot of the design choices they made. Six or eight months ago I sent them a big wish list of features that would have made it (in my humble opinion) an out-of-the-park hit, and they ignored every one of them. Whereas Spec-Comm is listening intently.

But the firestore is here today. Now. On the market. It works. It's Focus Enhancements' FIFTH generation of hard disk recorder. They've done this before, they have a lot of experience at this. And it's the only one on the market.

If you need a hard drive recorder, the entire debate is pointless until an alternative emerges (whether the cineporter or the citidisk or the nNovia or whatever).

If it's a business tool that you need for your business, get it now and put it to work, and get it to start paying itself off. If something better comes along down the road, sell this off and get the better tool.

But comparing them is kind of silly right now, because the firestore is what it is, and it's going to continue being what it is. If it works for you, get it and use it. Even if it's not ideal, get it and use it until something better comes along. Just so long as it works, and fulfills the basic need you have for it.
 
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Sorry to jump in here with a stupid question, but I just joined the forum and I want to start a new thread/question and can't figure out how to do so.

Thanks!
 
How the hell do I quote sections? O well... I'll do it this way...

"Perhaps, but you see the flip side of this argument too, right? We could take your same argument and say: "but the firestore is out NOW, and the cineporter may or may not ever make it to market." A guaranteed working on-the-market product beats a promised someday product every single time."

Yes, that is why I mentioned at the end of my first post that the FireStore is here now. By making it clear that the FireStore is here now and the Cineporter is not, we are comparing the known knowledge of functionality between both products. Basically saying, if the cineporter comes out and the firestore stays the same, then this is why the cineporter is better. However, it is very possible that the firestore will have updates depending on the release date of the cineporter, but it would be wrong to assume what would be added to the product between now and an undetermined time.

"I don't follow you at all on this one. Unless the cineporter draws exactly the same amount of power as the HVX, you're definitely going to have a situation where one runs out of battery power before the other does. Maybe way sooner. Just because it's using the same physical type of battery, that doesn't mean they'll last the same amount of time."

I dont mean that you'll be changing camera and cineporter batteries at the same time. I'm saying that when one completely runs out of juice, including spare batteries, then both are out of juice. So say for example you're in the middle of the desert, far from anything. You have $500 in batteries. When you're out of power, neither the HVX nor the cineporter will have power to function. Compared to having $250 in HVX batteries and $250 in FireStore batteries, where it's likely that you will run out of one stock of batteries before the other stock is completely drained. Think about the feeling you have when you want to put new AAA batteries into your TV remote but all you have is AA... tons and tons of AA... but no AAA in sight.
 
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We have a documentary job in NY in a week. Anyone know where we can our hands on a Firestore immediately? Any owners in NY willing to rent?

Thanks!
 
I think that the Cineporter, whenever it is released, will have an additional advantage over the Firestore. Since it uses the P2 connector and not the firewire connector, one can use the Cineporter and simultaneously use the firewire connector to link the HVX200 with a laptop to use DV RACk HD to monitor the image/flip/etc.
 
Morisato...

Notice I didn't disagree with anything you said in my last post. I also agreed that the Cineporter might be a better solution. I just added some facts to help support the debate on both ends. It wasn't an attack on you, or what you are saying. You just left out a few points that I thought we all could benefit from. No need to get all defensive. We're pretty relaxed around here :)
 
Has anyone had experience with the battery life on the Firestore FS-100/ I just bought one and the dealer said that the battery was a 9 hour battery and that the 90 minute was a missprint.... Is this true?? Seems to make sense the whole idea is to record continuously for 90 min.
 
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