My Audio Kit

if someone gave me your budget ( o.k i have more experience then you ) i could able to build much useful setup for cinema sound production - my concern to get the best compromise sound not the best uncompromising part of the adr .

never had any moister problems with cs-3e - i dont read reviews for that one i write them :-) when i will have one , i will certainly write this as well .
about the cs-5 is a nice mic but the mono pattern not reject as good as the cs-3 and the mic is more noisy , might be since the cs-3 was improved by the years and i never worked with previous model

your last paragraph give you some points and make me give a second thought about smile on the salesman face:-)
 
Well let me lay out my plan and maybe you can give me some pointers about how best to proceed. I'm still 1 year away from shooting. What I wanted to do first was aquire a good shotgun and the Schoeps CMC641 along with a good digital recorder and field mixer. I want to build a sound library for anything and everything I may need for my film but I want every last sound to be fresh. Nothing from a sound library. Doing this will give me some good experience with my equipment and give me a year to train on it.

Then, probably several months before production I'll pick up a 416 just in case and also possibly a Lectronics 400 along with a pair of countryman B6's (one black and one skin toned) or a Sanken COS-11. I'd prefer to use all wired mics, but I understand the advantge of having wireless in certain circumstances. I've never used it before though personally so I'd have to get familiar with it.

I have a friend from college who owns his own music recording studio and knows a ton about audio stuff so I'm going to try to bring him in sometime in January so we have six months to train on the equipment. I'm hoping he'll be my sound guy. I would honestly love to try my hand at doing the sound on the feature myself, but I doubt I'd be able to direct as well if that were the case. At any rate, having learned for myself over the previous 12 months I'll know better how to get the audio I want and need. I used to be one of those guys who had my boom man standing with the mic 6 feet away thinking I'd get good sound. Think of how painful it'd be to work with me and how bad it'd be for the movie if I didn't understand that the mic needs to be much closer. One of the great benefits is when I'm blocking out my scenes I'll also be able to account for the microphones and determine where best they can be used and positioned. All in all, me training as a sound guy will improve my filmmaking ability tremendously I think.
 
By the way, does anyone know of any place where I can hear the difference of a mic running into a mixer directly VS. a mic going through either a Sennheiser G2 or lectronics 400? I'm curious to hear the difference between the two.
 
Okay Gorilla, I swore I wasn't going to offer you any more advice, but I'll give it one more try.

Since you have so much time between now and when you're going to shoot, rent some of the mics you're considering. Yes, I know, you said there aren't any rental houses near you. So what. Call up Coffey or Location in L.A., leave the necessary deposits and they will ship them to you. Then, you ship them back. Very simple, and you get the chance to experience them all. Or go to your local public access station and see if they have equipment for rent that exceeds your current palate. Or, even better, post on Craig's List. I find it very hard to believe that there are no sound people of any kind in the state of Colorado.

(BTW, for the very first feature I worked on as mixer, the director rented 4 Lectro 2xx series sets with B6's from the same person he rented the camera, which was a Varicam HD. The rental company he used was in Boston, we're in Northern California. You get my point????)

Phil
 
you wont to build a sound library for your film???:-)) - buy a par of god cardioids, mixer and and some cheap recorder ,you can skip on mixer if you insist on 702( 3 grand for new - less then 1500 for used with mt or r-9 and mix pre , buy a few books , find someone who will hire you for pinatas to work as his third on real production .
a year from now when you will be much eduacated and might be the new stuff will hit the market deside what exactly you like and want to buy for your film .
to read reviews and not get spanked on the set doesnt bring good education , at least for production soundman or at least one who is going educate the "friend " in the future
 
Yeah I'll definatley rent the stuff I'm undecided on and check it out. I have no objections to doing that. I AM going to buy whatever I decide on for myself though so I can use it on a whim if I so choose. I like having my own gear so I know it's history and so I can become very familiar with it and it's limitations.
 
Would a pair of Okatava's do the trick for the sound effect recording? sure, two CMC641's would be great, but that IS out of my price range.

Also, any recommendations as to specific books I could read? I was looking around on Amazon today but it's difficult to sort through what's quality and what's garbage.
 
the octavas , the 184 s, audix sx ,480+61 , mbho and many others .they all good for sfx
whats wrong with 2 cmc 64 (cardioids) , 5 minutes ago you had enouth for these ones - you like schoeps buy a par now sell one later
 
Phil what is the name of the guy who make documentary and i think lives in Colorado - he also have revius on his site ,Dave Shaaf ?
 
Well I COULD buy 2 CMC's but it would be at the expense of the CMIT/CS3E/416. Just out of curiosity though, how come you need two? I watched the special features on the Indiana Jones and Star Wars DVD's and from the looks of it, Ben Burt only used one.

Also, regarding the Lectronics 400, I'm looking at it and I think I know how it all works together, but could somone tell me if this is indeed the case? Does it go Mic--->XLR--->Transmitter--->Receiver--->---XLR--->Mixer--->XLR--->Recorder? Is that correct? So essentially you just have a wireless bridge between the mic and the mixer? Or is it more complicated than that?
 
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befor you spend even one $ on whatever you spend buy some books about production /post production/sound sfx/sound desighn /adr and how to be producer . sorry i just tired from your questions
ciao
 
Well thanks for your help so far Exile.

I have another dumb question for whoever could answer it, what would be the difference between getting a Lectro 400 kit and a Lectro 100 with a 400 transmitter? I see both packages on BH, but the prices are significantly different. Would the 100 w/ 400 transmitter work well for movie production or would I really need to spend the extra 1,500.00 to get in that league?
 
Gorilla,

Speaking strictly for myself, I think you've used up more than your quota of questions and answers for this month. At some point, I think you need to pick one person here, offer to pay them a consulting fee and they can lay out your entire package for you. Probably even negotiate a lower cost for you.

Phil
 
Gorilla,

That is not what my post said. What is said was, you are monopolizing the forum, and the advice and answers you are getting from people here is valuable, but you don't seem to understand that. Many of the people that have engaged you, and spent time to provide you with detailed answers do sound for a living. I cannot remember anyone coming into this forum and asking as many questions as you have in such a short period of time. And, worse yet, you mostly haven't listened to the answers you didn't like. For example, several of the most experienced mixers in this forum (and again, I am not including myself) have recommended against getting a CMIT, and have done so repeatedly in at least 40 posts. Now yes, you finally have come around and are considering not buying it. If you were really eager to learn, then you would actually listen to the answers. And if you were really eager to learn, you also would have followed the advice given to you early and pick up a book like Jay Rose's, which would have answered many of your basic questions directly.

Phil
 
Phil, I have been listening and you have no idea how appreciative I am for all of this information. So thank you all very much! You all are making a world of difference for me!

You know what my plan was for my audio kit before, but take a look at this and I'll just let the list speak for itself:

1. Sound Devices 702 1,850.00
2. Sanken CS-3E 1,350.00
3. Schoeps CMC 641 1,500.00
4. Sound Devices 302 1,200.00
5. Lectronics 100 W/400 TR 1,500.00
6. Countryman B6 Lav 290.00

As for the book, or books rather, I just ordered both of Jay Rose's books this morning off of Amazon.
 
ptalsky said:
Gorilla,

That is not what my post said. What is said was, you are monopolizing the forum, and the advice and answers you are getting from people here is valuable, but you don't seem to understand that. Many of the people that have engaged you, and spent time to provide you with detailed answers do sound for a living. I cannot remember anyone coming into this forum and asking as many questions as you have in such a short period of time. And, worse yet, you mostly haven't listened to the answers you didn't like. For example, several of the most experienced mixers in this forum (and again, I am not including myself) have recommended against getting a CMIT, and have done so repeatedly in at least 40 posts. Now yes, you finally have come around and are considering not buying it. If you were really eager to learn, then you would actually listen to the answers. And if you were really eager to learn, you also would have followed the advice given to you early and pick up a book like Jay Rose's, which would have answered many of your basic questions directly.

Phil
Click to expand...

this is not the number phil but the quality of the questions
why i need 2 to record sound sfx just broke me- if i like to speak to the wall - i have much better place in Jerusalem
 
books...

Jay Rose has two very good ones. one is on getting great sound in the first place and the other is on post production of sound.

"Producing Great Sound for Digital Video"

"Audio Postproduction for Digital Video"

another excellent one that gives more specifics of what to do in what situation is
by Tomlinson Holman as in the TH in THX

"Sound for Digital Video" and his other book that is a bit more textbook like but a great read...

"Sound for Film and Television"

i would say get those four books.

probably read the first Jay Rose book and then the first Tomlinson Holman book and then when you have time read the second Tomlinson Holman book.

nothing will substitute time spent with a microphone and something to record the sound.

it isn't the best but i did a LOT of decent work with just my dvx-100a and an me-66

i then moved on to the dvx-100a and a 416. no mixer.

that short got decent film festival plays and the sound came out great with nothing needing to be adr'ed.

my current kit is a bit of overkill but i'm in a unique situation where i retired rather young and i really want to learn as much as i can and get as good as i can at location sound recording...

sound devices 442 (had 302 and sold to get 4 channels)
sound devices 744t (the CF only models didn't come out until after i got this one)
sennheiser 416
oktava mk-012 (2 of them, one with all three capsules, one with just hypercardioid)
ktek 152ccr boom (just got that)
ktek zeppeling (just got it with the boom)
gitzo carbon boom (excellent boom for the money, no internal wiring)
denecke ts3 backlit slate (didn't need it but got it used/cheap)
sennheiser g1 and g2 wireless
sanken cos-11 lavalier (2)
sanken cub-01 boundary mic, plant mic, car interior mic etc.
sony 7506 headphones

but again, i started with just a dvx-100a and an me-66 and an at-899 lav which served me well for 2 shorts and 2 documentaries.

i would NOT recommend buying your sound stuff from b&h. find a pro audio shop and listen to the advice of the salesperson...

i use gothamsound.com and micah (mike-uh) is super helpful and has a great working knowledge of this stuff. i would trust him with my wallet.

but the biggest thing is to get out there and shoot/record as much as you can as often as you can and listen/watch what you've created and try to do it even better next time.

there is no substitute to working with a pro.

i had the great opportunity to work with walter graff last summer. i approached him, offered to help out, do grunt work etc. zero pay but a priceless amount of information learned/absorbed etc.

matthew
 
continue to check the dvds - you will find much more :-)
dont know him personally ,probably not bad sound recordists.- you can call him and ask why he prefer mono sound on sfx - if it mono. since you probably cant tell me what mic it was and in what situation.

continue with your fresh sound liabrary you are building good move dont even ask your economic second degree relative who produce you ,how much economically its to waist 3 grand on something you can buy for 300 or throw to the garbage if you really have Rodriguez style hit , then they will do it for you and much better :-) ( you made me loaf about that 2 days ago - the all films he did after where recorded with 100000 $ recording setups , the first one was part mute and part on non sync recorder for later adr job , Paramount ?or these who bought his film put more then 500000 in its soundtrack to make it usable for cinema release ) , sorry you are probably not Rodriguez and never will be one , you will need to write music as well at least to make your credits be as long as his :-).

be the force with you and especially with these who give you the money, they will need alot of luck to see the profit from their investment ( even i have a filing you are robbing your parents)
ciao
 
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