Curtis_Rhoads
Active member
I'd love to see that clip. Been working on getting something tht looks more realistic than the flash & show of Hollywood! 
Muzzle Flashes!!
- Thread starter DarlingDimple
- Start date
GageFX
Carbonite Member
I dont have anything ready to go right now, so when I have a couple minutes I'll edit and upload it.
As far as the "flash and show of Hollywood", remember that movie viewers expect a certain thing and when they dont get it, they'll think it is fake or poorly done or that it just doesnt work. I have suppressed firearms in my film and for the life of me I want the sound to reflect what a real silenced firearm sounds like, but in the end, I will have to make it sound like a James Bond silenced weapon or people wont believe it. That annoys me. And, even though suppressed firearms dont have muzzle flashes, I will end up putting them in as that's what the people expect.
I'll get on it, and I assure you, it isnt that exciting. Which is mostly my point. There's nothing fancy and exciting, just the flash you see in the stills earlier in the thread, and 4-6 frames of brass arching out of the ejection port. But I think it's good for film makers to see what really happens even if you cant really use that.
-GageFX
As far as the "flash and show of Hollywood", remember that movie viewers expect a certain thing and when they dont get it, they'll think it is fake or poorly done or that it just doesnt work. I have suppressed firearms in my film and for the life of me I want the sound to reflect what a real silenced firearm sounds like, but in the end, I will have to make it sound like a James Bond silenced weapon or people wont believe it. That annoys me. And, even though suppressed firearms dont have muzzle flashes, I will end up putting them in as that's what the people expect.
I'll get on it, and I assure you, it isnt that exciting. Which is mostly my point. There's nothing fancy and exciting, just the flash you see in the stills earlier in the thread, and 4-6 frames of brass arching out of the ejection port. But I think it's good for film makers to see what really happens even if you cant really use that.
-GageFX
Matt Grunau
Adobe Demigod
I would also like to see it.
curtisbouvier
Member
copy and paste into a new window..
http://curtisbouvier.tripod.com/p99skit1.zip
http://curtisbouvier.tripod.com/p99skit1.zip
GageFX
Carbonite Member
Hey guys. Sorry I haven'y uploaded yet. Been super busy. Update: Along with the footage I already mentioned,now have footage of my 16 yr old actress shooting a full auto 9mm MP5. I shot in both 24Pa and 60i/1/120 for some slow mo stuff. It's just range stuff and not great footage, but again, it was just for screen testing the flash and gun action.
The SMG was full-auto only, not even a single fire selection, let alone a burst, but she did well. Sprayed a bit shooting full auto, but with trigger control was able to squirt off accurate single and burst shots. She's becoming one lethal girl. (And this doesnt include her fight training where she is learning actual israeli skills along with her choreography.
But I digress.
Just more stuff I will be too busy to get around to posting, but will try. (Again, not as dramatic as Hollywood's or Curtis' efforts, but that's what the people expect. I enjoyed your stuff, Curtis.
-GageFX
The SMG was full-auto only, not even a single fire selection, let alone a burst, but she did well. Sprayed a bit shooting full auto, but with trigger control was able to squirt off accurate single and burst shots. She's becoming one lethal girl. (And this doesnt include her fight training where she is learning actual israeli skills along with her choreography.
But I digress.
Just more stuff I will be too busy to get around to posting, but will try. (Again, not as dramatic as Hollywood's or Curtis' efforts, but that's what the people expect. I enjoyed your stuff, Curtis.
-GageFX
My favorite show man. We gave our lead a SIG for his cop role haha. It was a Jack Bauer-esque role anyway heh. Was even wearing similar trademark kevlar vest. Too bad firearms (Yes even replicas like toys or airsoft) are illegal in Singapore... Penalty for which is a many years of jail and a big-ass fine - The police enforce it rather stringently too. One of my other directors got busted recently for a shoot in which he was using fake guns. For my latest short, I had to smuggle a few in and pay off alot of blackmarket arms dealers to get our airsoft replicas. Was horribly risky and they cost a bomb too (Literally!). So glad I'm in Cali now heh: Where airsoft is as common as Wal Marts
We used a whole variety of different firearms of my latest short. Had 60-70 of them ranging from M4s, M3s, MP5s, pistols, etc... Was pretty sweet but not all the actors/actresses know how to use them properly. Alot of good shots were ruined by personnel who never had a chance to hold a real firearm before. That was the problem filming action movies in Singapore. Real experience with weapons is so rare that no one knows how to really hold them - Not to mention shoot. I'll post this film online sometime in another section.
Anyway, nice H & K there Gage. Wish I could've used something like that for my film. Glocks are my personal favorite. I got a question though:
Is it true that because the safety is located on the trigger of Glocks, people who are trained to use them put their finger on the trigger of the weapon unlike other models which have safeties located elsewhere?
Its quite pertinent cuz there was a scene with our lead actress pointing a glock at the main bad guy and her trigger was very tightly clasped around the trigger.
Last edited:
GageFX
Carbonite Member
The finger is never on the trigger of any firearm until target is acquired and the shooter is not only ready to shoot but in the process of shooting. ie. the finger stays off the trigger unless you are actually shooting.
This, of course, is proper firearms training. You can obviously have gang members or less knowledgable bad guys running around with their fingers on the trigger to show their lack of knowledge. Anyone trained, though, will keep their finger "indexed" alongside the triggerguard.
-GageFX
This, of course, is proper firearms training. You can obviously have gang members or less knowledgable bad guys running around with their fingers on the trigger to show their lack of knowledge. Anyone trained, though, will keep their finger "indexed" alongside the triggerguard.
-GageFX
ProLost
Well-known member
Hi guys,
There's a BIG section on guns, especially Airsoft, in my new book. I recently blogged about this.
Lest this post be a straight-up ad for the book, let me add some advice from a maniacal muzzle-flash compositor. If you use a stock element, do NOT fade it out over even one frame. Flash it on for one frame at full opacity and that's it. Muzzle flashes never last longer than one frame, and a 1/2 opacity flash looks totally bogus.
Remember that flashes will be less visible in daylight than in a dark scene.
The shape of the muzzle flash is dictated by the muzzle itself and any flash supressor that may be mounted there.
If you have Digital Fusion 4, you can try out my muzzle flash macro.
Hope that's at least a little helpful,
-Stu
There's a BIG section on guns, especially Airsoft, in my new book. I recently blogged about this.
Lest this post be a straight-up ad for the book, let me add some advice from a maniacal muzzle-flash compositor. If you use a stock element, do NOT fade it out over even one frame. Flash it on for one frame at full opacity and that's it. Muzzle flashes never last longer than one frame, and a 1/2 opacity flash looks totally bogus.
Remember that flashes will be less visible in daylight than in a dark scene.
The shape of the muzzle flash is dictated by the muzzle itself and any flash supressor that may be mounted there.
If you have Digital Fusion 4, you can try out my muzzle flash macro.
Hope that's at least a little helpful,
-Stu
markcheng
Well-known member
yo prolost, the orphanage rules!!!! just read about what you guys did for Superman Returns in the latest Cinefex. been following your company's progress since the magic bullet software and that totally wicked short film you did where some helicopter was right outside a dude's house and blew away the room!!!!!!! guess I'm a groupie 
edit: yo, i didn't realize you guys did that navy seals commercial too! i saw that in times square where I work. sweeeeet.
edit: yo, i didn't realize you guys did that navy seals commercial too! i saw that in times square where I work. sweeeeet.
ProLost
Well-known member
markcheng said:
Thanks Mark!
That film, The Last Birthday Card, will be included on the DVD that ships with the book (with director's commentary!). Many of the effects examples were taken from that film.
I used metal replica Beretta 92s (which we never fired) and many airsofts in that film. Bought a big ol' Steyr Aug just for one scene, and a MPK with folding stock too. One of the big focusses of the book is safe and realistic ways of getting great gunfights in your movie. I'll be posting more sneak peaks and some free tutorials and stuff so keep your RSS reader tuned to prolost!
-Stu
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
What about silenced pistols? Are there any flashes or smoke for those?
Brandon Rice
Distributed Producer
Yeah, cause at the beginning of our film, we have four shots with a silenced pistol.
ProLost
Well-known member
Brandon Rice said:
I've seen a tiny flash come out of a movie silencer, presumably because it was cosmetic only and not internally baffled the way a real silencer is. You could use my template to do that very effectively.
I didn't include a smoke system in the gun flash template, but seperatly there's a template for making spark hits that also has smoke. It's a particle system built in AE that requires no 3rd party plug-ins.
-Stu
GageFX
Carbonite Member
Real silencers (suppressors) do not flash. That flash in film for various reasons. The first being that, as mentioned above, they are cosmetic and not functioning. The second, being that that is what is expected. Just like the "James Bond" sound of the silenced pistol - "pfffffft". Not anything what a real silenced firearm sounds like.
For those that care:
Whenyou fire a silenced pistol, you get a multiple of sounds. The first being the explosion that lauches the round. The second being the round breaking the sound barrier, the third being the pistol/firearm racking/autoloading a new round, and the last being the shell ejecting then hitting the ground. We can eliminate the 4th as that is usually covered in sound.
So a real silenced pistol will be a muffled explosion, the round breaking the sound barrier, and the gun racking. We'll load some subsonic rounds and eliminate #2.
Now we have a muffled explosion. This explosion can be load depending on caliber and load. In general, the sound is deadened enough to warrant not wearing hearing protection at an outdoor range, but can still cause damage to hearing indoors.
Enter the .22.
The .22 is a light enough round/load that you can fire it easily suppressed indoors with no hearing protection. The round firing will sound just like the James Bond "Pfffft". However, you still have the gun racking which is quite loud. Imagine loading/cocking a gun by forcefully racking the slide. That's the sound it makes. Not a gentle, quiet, rack the slide slowly to surprise the bad guys. While not loud enough to warrant any protection, it is certainly load enough to be heard in any environment.
The suppressed .22 is the firearm/round choice of the skilled assasin. The only person I have seen execute this is Mann in Collateral. While Cruise handles a HK USPf .45 through most of the film, he used a .22 Ruger in Jazz Club to off the musician. As is fitting to the location, need for silence, and the close proximity allows the smaller round to do maximum damage.
Mann really pays attention to his firearms and tactics. I went into my film with the similar quidelines and had to back off due to budget restrictions. Oh well. I dont think anyone will ever notice.
-GageFX
For those that care:
Whenyou fire a silenced pistol, you get a multiple of sounds. The first being the explosion that lauches the round. The second being the round breaking the sound barrier, the third being the pistol/firearm racking/autoloading a new round, and the last being the shell ejecting then hitting the ground. We can eliminate the 4th as that is usually covered in sound.
So a real silenced pistol will be a muffled explosion, the round breaking the sound barrier, and the gun racking. We'll load some subsonic rounds and eliminate #2.
Now we have a muffled explosion. This explosion can be load depending on caliber and load. In general, the sound is deadened enough to warrant not wearing hearing protection at an outdoor range, but can still cause damage to hearing indoors.
Enter the .22.
The .22 is a light enough round/load that you can fire it easily suppressed indoors with no hearing protection. The round firing will sound just like the James Bond "Pfffft". However, you still have the gun racking which is quite loud. Imagine loading/cocking a gun by forcefully racking the slide. That's the sound it makes. Not a gentle, quiet, rack the slide slowly to surprise the bad guys. While not loud enough to warrant any protection, it is certainly load enough to be heard in any environment.
The suppressed .22 is the firearm/round choice of the skilled assasin. The only person I have seen execute this is Mann in Collateral. While Cruise handles a HK USPf .45 through most of the film, he used a .22 Ruger in Jazz Club to off the musician. As is fitting to the location, need for silence, and the close proximity allows the smaller round to do maximum damage.
Mann really pays attention to his firearms and tactics. I went into my film with the similar quidelines and had to back off due to budget restrictions. Oh well. I dont think anyone will ever notice.
-GageFX