music rights

dvpixl

dvpixl

Veteran
Let's say I finished a film and put in this music I really liked. I put it in and send it to festivals...small time- without any care about the music rights... it gets picked up in a festival...
will anyone care? will someone find it and kill me?

well, last time I saw an indy film with a popular song was... never.

and is it true that only if I make millions then they will hunt me down?
 
Re: music rights

www.clearance.com

Everything and anything can be negotiated. If you have no intention of making money off the song, the costs are negotiated to reflect that, if you want to make money, the costs reflect that. If you want to set up a deal where the rights change as soon as there is a revenue stream, that can also be negotiated.

It is best to know up front what will happen than be unpleasantly surprised by paying a lot for a song, lawsuit, or having to replace the music with something that was never as good as your original intent.

Michael
 
Re: music rights

I agree with Michael. It's better to pay up front then to have to pay court costs and lawyer fees and so forth if your film blows up.

As far as anyone caring, I don't think you can get in trouble unless the crowd pays to see the film.... I think anyway ::)
 
Re: music rights

What if you use LOOPS from Soundtrack or some other software. The song you create would be original but the actual instrumentations of the loops would belong to someone else i.e. Apple or whoever. Can you legally COPYRIGHT music you have created using Loop software or CD's? I have about 16 completed songs that I have done using Soundtrack and I need to know if I can legally copyright my work.
 
Re: music rights

I don't know about copyright of the resulting pieces, but you will have no issues with the original loops or ownership. Part of the purchase is your right to own them. They have no claim on any music created. Check your puchase/install agreement (the thing we always click through without reading). There may be a clause about purchase and ownership if by chance a user is using a "borrowed" copy.

You might be able to copyright the entire collection as a "Soundtrack" to film: "such and such" as long as it is with picure, but as far as copyrighting music only - that is a good question.

Michael
 
Re: music rights

[quote author=MichaelP link=board=MesPhotos;num=1091340160;start=0#4 date=08/01/04 at 13:49:00]I don't know about copyright of the resulting pieces, but you will have no issues with the original loops or ownership. Part of the purchase is your right to own them. They have no claim on any music created. Check your puchase/install agreement (the thing we always click through without reading). There may be a clause about purchase and ownership if by chance a user is using a "borrowed" copy. [/quote]

That may not be universally true. THere were several sound modules produced in the 80's and 90s that ended up being the subject of lawsuits because certain patches or sounds contained within were not cleared of all copyrights.

Usually, with commercially available loops, full license is given to the owner to reproduce, by performance or recording, the sound of the loop...but this is not always the case automatically. Chances are that any music you generate using loops will be free for sync, but it's worth researching the actual loops to make sure.

As far as not clearing your music for festivals, that's a bad idea all around. Most festivals implicitly require you to state that everything within the context of your film is either your intellectual property or that you have negotiated for a clearance for the copyright. Most festivals worth mentioning will require you to sign documents effectively indemnifying the festival of any copyright infringement you bring apon them...but in signing that document, you're really just asking for trouble if you haven't gotten all your ducks in a row.
 
Re: music rights

I've already seen those loops in SOUNDTRACK used everywhere. everytime I hear it, it makes me want to not use SOUNDTRACK all the more even.. it's a nice program but it's not tasteful all that much. especially when many many people use it.
I have another question: if I use a known band's music on my website, and not have permission for it, should i just basically not use it or is there a way around it?
I know it's illegal but I've seen many people do it and thought they possibly couldn't have gotten permission for it...
 
Re: music rights

[quote author=DvPixl link=board=MesPhotos;num=1091340160;start=0#7 date=08/12/04 at 22:23:21]  I have another question: if I use a known band's music on my website, and not have permission for it, should i just basically not use it or is there a way around it?
 I know it's illegal but I've seen many people do it and thought they possibly couldn't have gotten permission for it...[/quote]

Yes it's illegal, thus you shouldn't do it.

Chances of them coming down on you are slim, but at some point you have to start thinking like a content creator yourself...what would you feel if someone was using your music on their website without asking you? How would you feel if you thought they might be profiting from your efforts without rewarding you?

Everyone steals and borrows early in their career, but there comes a point when you have to start acting like a professional if you expect to eventually be treated like one.

Theft is still theft, even if everyone is doing it. If you allow yourself to profit, either financially, professionally, or artistically, from the unauthorized use of other people's work...what moral obligation will anyone ever have to compensate you or respect the rights of work that you produce in the future?
 
Re: music rights

PS – I read this fascinating article, I think it might have been in Wired magazine, and it discussed the early pirating perpetrated by the Confederation of States right after the revolutionary war.

One of the ideas put forth in the article is that by having no copyright laws, the government allowed enterprising Americans to steal the work of English companies and citizens, even to the point where people were pressing unauthorized copies of protected books for sale without rendering royalties to the legitimate owners.

This freedom from control was partially responsible with the early financial success of America, and allowed what was a laughable British colony to quickly rise in economic power. But now the US is facing a deluge of copyright offenses from developing nations that have no such copyright laws, and everyone is scrambling to find ways to stem the flow of unauthorized goods.

I think that in this age of online presence, copyright infringements by individuals become even more dangerous because there is effectively a permanent record of the offense. When you end up using copyrighted works on a website, that website can be captured forever in any number of places.

Think about how that could come back to haunt you one day, perhaps if the tables are turned and you are a copyright holder seeking retribution.
 
Re: music rights

Read the license agreement which comes with the loops. In theory, if you have a full license to use them, then yes, what you create is copyrighted, as you'd have the right to create derivative works with them -- but that's not universally true, because, as others have pointed out, not all loops are completely cleared.

Have your lawyer read the license agreement. Always consult an attorney. Or just don't do it.
 
Re: music rights

thanks all. someone recently pointed out http://www.clearance.com/ so I'm going to look into it. But as far as using these songs go, it's just for my demo reels on my website- not for any profitable movie or program. but I understand because I'm against pirating and such. anyway, I guess I'll work something up on SOUNDTRACK...
 
Re: music rights

If I had the time, I'd work on music for your shorts.

My point being that I'm probably not alone, there's a lot of people out there who want an outlet for their music. If you have the time to find them, you'll get what you want while contributing to the exposure of a fellow artist.
 
Re: music rights

Actually, Id be surprised if a festival let you enter a film with no copyright releases. Usually, I'd figure you would have to show proof of legally using any music and also all model releases.
 
Re: music rights

Thats why Rodriguez Makes his own music :) heh heh

Seriously though, Festival use isnt ok, and Record Companies even have special Sync/Master scales for Festival Use.
 
Re: music rights

i need to get ahold of Mr. Rodruiguez..
you know .. make a film together and such. Something fresh. just hang out with him..

seems like acool guy.. im mean, he uses the same Synth that I do for scoring!
 
Re: music rights

Could I get in trouble for using a copyrighted song for the soundtrack for a DEMO reel that I would send to potential employers or those people that would like to see my work like potential clients.
 
Re: music rights

This is very unlikely. Unless you're sending it to the Harry Fox agency or something like that.

I've seen enough reels to know that most of them "borrow" music.

Really, that's sort of outside of the scope of what the modern copyright laws are for. In the case of a reel, it's not intended for broadcast, it's not intended for a public viewing, and it's not intended to turn a direct profit.

Sure you could potentially make money by getting hired from it, but you still won't be profitting from that piece of tape.

Also, consider that most hollywood editors are editing to scratch tracks these days of pop music they have no intention of using in the final version. Those tapes are still passed around between executives and production personell in the same way that you intend your reel to be traded.

In other words, not only are you safe from scrutiny, I don't think you're technically violating copyright laws in your use. Maybe, but I wouldn't think so.
 
Re: music rights

Hello everyone,

Newbie here. I just found this board about 4 days ago and I can't stop reading! There is so much info here! I'm still very green so this is all very exciting!

My question pertains to the music rights threads (obviously):
I am making a movie that I will try and distribute through the Festival Circuit. The movie will have tracks of music and sound effects using Soundtrack. However, there is a song that I wanted to use for the opening credits sequence that I KNOW I cannot afford to license. Can I use that song as an "alternate" sequence (say, as a bonus feature on the DVD) that I am only giving to my cast and crew as part of my thank you? I am making no profit off of the DVDs, so would it be legal to do so? Again, the track would not be a part of the feature, just on the DVD as a bonus feature.

Thanks In Advance!
~32
 
Re: music rights

I don't think you can legally do that unless you specifically put a notice on the box/dvd that states it is not licensed for sale or public screening.

The thing is, if you're not doing anything with it for financial gain, if you're not showing it to a paying audience, if you're not broadcasting it, you're pretty much in the clear...even if it's a gray area, they're not going to bother trying to enforce anything on you unless you gain from the use of their copyrighted material...or if your use somehow reduces the value of their copyrighted material. I don't see that there could be a successful argument in either of those cases based on your scenario.

Furthermore, if you put a notice that implicitly states that the DVD is not for broadcast, sale, or public viewing...then anyone who shows it or uses it in those capacities is in violation your intended use.

Sure someone could argue that you're "sharing" legally copyrighted material, but then they'd have to go after every Joe making DVD slideshows to the tune of Dream Weaver.

I'd think you're pretty safe doing what you suggest.

(disclaimer: I'm no lawyer, so take everything with a grain of salt and an ounce of common sense)
 
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