music composing software: cakewalk, cubase...

TheMacB said:
is there any reason i need cubase sx instead of se?
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For the beginner, there is no reason to get SX. With SX you have more options but it doesn't mean you can't manage with SE version and make good music, even better than with SX. Making music is all about the ideas, not on which platform you are working with. It can even be so that less is more. :thumbsup:
 
Hmm.

It comes down to what you can afford, what you feel comfortable using. I'll pitch into the Garritan Personal Orchestra idea. It's a fantastic library. I know that EWQL is great too, especially for a more hollywood sound, but I use GPO and I like it a lot.

Cakewalk SONAR is good. Cakewalk Home Studio is good. You're going to want VST and DXi support, and this can be done with both Home Studio and SONAR. In Home studio 2004 you'll need a plugin which is cheap (or free, I'm not sure). Otherwise you can get Home Studio SONAR which has it all built in.

Before you go and buy any of this, make sure you stick around on the forums for these products and make sure your PC CAN HANDLE IT. Trust me, I'm about to move to a dedicated audio machine. These libraries take up RAM and CPU power like crazy.

Weigh up EWQL and GPO and see what you like best. Hang around the forums for a while first, get to know the users a bit. You'll learn A LOT this way first. As for software, I will recommend Cakewalk. But feel free to check out Cubase etc. Hans Zimmer and a lot of top hollywood composers use Cubase or sequencers like it.

Remember though. These libraries sound great, but it's only if you know how to make them do it. They're not going to make up for poor orchestrating or knowledge. So make sure you really need these before you buy. Check your computer specs, soundcard etc. before buying anything. Like petelms says in the post below me, the demos are written by talented composers. So if you don't know how to write for an orchestra, do not buy these products. Start with general MIDI. Or a notation program. Learn theory, practice, and work your way up.

Be carful about judging the library based on demos you hear on the site. Listen to user demos too. Hang around the community. The other day some guy came on to a forum and had around 5k plus worth of sample libraries. He had some demos that were easily do-able by someone who just had GPO. Why? because often the people with the slightly smaller tools know how to make the most out of it. Not always the case, and often you need the extra libraries but it's a thought.

[EDIT: KEY]

DXi/VST These are basically just plugins which can be loaded into your software program that has support for them. (VST and or DXi support). Libraries like EQWL and GPO can run on either, though nowdays most sequencers allow both which is a good thing. These libraries I speak of are large collections of sound samples used to emulate an orchestra. GPO and EWQL are high quality professional libraries, and perfectly workable in software that supports VST and DXi.

A sequencer is a program which allows you to write, edit music, add effects, etc. You have a lot more control over the sound than plain notation programs such as finale or sibelius, used to print professional scores for playing. They are becoming more compatable with samples etc. now, but still not quite up to scratch with a sequencer.

Example:

-Cakewalk's Sonar and Cubase are both sequencers. They have DXi and VST support.
-GPO is an orchestra library with Dxi and VST support. This means, they can be used in Cakewalk and Cubase.

http://www.cakewalk.com
http://www.steinberg.net
http://www.garritan.com
http://www.soundsonline.com/sophtml/details.phtml?sku=EW-161 -
http://www.northernsounds.com/forum

Just a few to get you started. All these places contain general information on programs, samples etc as well as specific information to certain products.

Good luck.

-Chris
 
ChrisHurn said:
Hmm.

Remember though. These libraries sound great, but it's only if you know how to make them do it. They're not going to make up for poor orchestrating or knowledge. So make sure you really need these before you buy.

-Chris
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Totally agree, Chris. When people hear those demos from homepages they think, 'Aaah! Exactly what I have been looking for!' and don't realize that those demos have been made by extremely talented musicians who really know what they are doing. If you really want to use these tools you have to start studying orchestration, composing, harmony...and so on. Even if we have all of these wonderful tools available, it doens't mean that actually making music is any easier. :thumbsup:
 
Petelms-Thanks for all the great advice. one more question: How do you run a program like EW QL GOLD? Is it run off a midi controller? Would I be able to plug my keyboard direct via MIDI and use it?
 
petelms said:
No, it doesn't. You will need Gigastudio on PC or Logic EXS 24 mk II on MAC. And Performance tool is also made to be used with Gigastudio. These are not VST instruments, these are samples only, you will need a sampler to use them. EW QL stuffs are VSTs.
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I was just referring to how the new Vienna instruments collection runs under VST:

"Three years ago we introduced the Performance Tool, bridging the gap between static samples and dynamic performances. Now the next revolution is at hand. VIENNA INSTRUMENTS, the most powerful Virtual Instruments on the market, embody intelligent Performance Algorithms into an easy-to-use VST/AU plug-in to orchestrate an inconceivably vast array of samples. For the first time hundreds of inspiring articulations can be combined in one Preset and on a single MIDI track. Our proprietary Performance Detection analyzes intervals, repeated notes, patterns, and even speed in real-time and automatically summons the appropriate articulation or nuance. If you never imagined a Virtual Instrument could read your mind, think again. Never before has composing been so natural, fast, and so much fun."

Granted they're not true samples, they're virtual, so you're right about the actual Vienna library not running as vst.

petelms said:
Have you actually ever used these? Or do you maybe mean that you can use these with EXS sampler in Logic? :undecided
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I've only used them under EXS in Logic, not giga.
 
I say 100% the best options would be get these :

ProTools M-Powered (if you got an m-audio soundcard that can support it)
Colossus VSTi
Sampletank VSTi

And you will be 90% good to go!

Get Battery 2 VSTi as well then you are 100%

if not protools, go with Steinberg Nuendo

DONT LISTEN TO WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS ANYMORE. hehe. Nah but seriously!
 
Personally I use Steinberg's Nuendo 3.2 as my main sequencer. It's not cheap but very professional. I use if for live sessions, voiceovers, ADR work, midi and scoring music for film. I can fly in a piece of film/video and start scoring immediately.

There are a variety of sample libraries available to choose from. I used EWQLSO Gold XP as my main source for orchestral instruments. Siver is a scaled down version that is cheaper but sounds excellent for the money. In addition, I use a variety of VST instruments and samplers.

It all depends on how involved you need to be and what price range you're looking at.

Here's a link to my studio tools page if your interested in a complete listing of gear.

http://www.markdalzell.com/studio.htm

Good luck.

Mark Dalzell / AudioScapes
Las Vegas, NV
 
Slimothy said:
Petelms-Thanks for all the great advice. one more question: How do you run a program like EW QL GOLD? Is it run off a midi controller? Would I be able to plug my keyboard direct via MIDI and use it?
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EW QL GOLD runs as a VST-plugin (and I think standalone as well...) That means you will need some kind of sequencer which is able to use VST-plugins. For example Cubase, which is very popular in PC world. You just load the EW QL plugin to your virtual instruments in your sequencer and that's it!

What kind of soundcard you have? A good soundcard with low latency is a must with these kind of music apps...I always recommend to check out M-Audios low budget soundcards...great for the money! Forget SoundBlasters and go with M-Audio...

If you want to use your keyboard with the EW QL (as you probably do...!) then you will need a MIDI in connection in your soundcard. Just connect your keyboard MIDI out to your soundcards MIDI in. And then you have to manually select right ports inside your sequencer to get it working on the right track. Nowadays, many keyboards have USB-connection which also sends the MIDI-information to the computer, so there is no need for MIDI-cables...I have 2 of this kind of keyboards and I love 'em. Both are M-AUDIOs.

These are very power and memory hungry apps, some professional users use many computers which are linked together to share the load.

Hope this helps. :thumbup:
 
ended up going with the motu library. its definitely no vienna but for about a fifth of the price its pretty darn good. also picked up a copy of cakewalk sonar. from talking to people it seems there's not that much difference between cubase and cakewalk and i have used cakewalk in the past. i have some pieces that i wrote in cakewalk ten years ago and haven't heard them since because i no longer had cakewalk to open them. i can't wait to hear what they sound like with the motu library!

here are some motu samples:
http://www.motu.com/products/software/msi/media/examples/track06.html

http://www.motu.com/products/software/msi/media/examples/track13.html

woohoo! i'm so excited!
 
Digital Performer is one of the most widely used sequencers in the music industry, and a terrific program. I second the mentions for Garritan and Sampletank, both great libraries that can be tweaked and improved.
 
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