Multicam issues

[Anomie]

Last month I recorded a 2 hours conference with two camera's. A rented HMC150 from a distance to have the whole 'stage'. And my own DVX100 at closer range to do mediums and close-ups from the people, audience (asking questions) and important speaker(s). I had four microphones: two wireless lavs on the clothes of the speakers and two wired for the audience questions. The wireless went to the DVX100, each to its own channel and the wired ones went to the HMC150, same construction. I thought I would have four seperate audiotracks available that way.

I shot all footage in 25p, though the DVX did 4:3 and the HMC did 16:9 of course. The plan is to reframe/crop the 16:9 footage to 4:3. (If I do that well, it even appears that the camera was operated wich was not the case). In the end I plan to export it to a nice 4:3 DVD. Will be viewed on large LCD televisions and large (conferenceroom-style) beamerscreens.

The recording of both audio and video went well.

But it was my first time with:
-the HMC150
-two camera's recording the same event at the same moment
-wireless microphones
-multiple microphones

But like I said, that part went quite well.

The idea (for myself) was to learn a lot of new things.

Now at the same time I have purchased Edius 5.5. My previous NLE was a consumer product (Corel VideoStudio 12). So I am new to the program. I have played around with it and as of yesterday it doesn't 'scare' me anymore.

Now, enter my issue:
I have studied the tutorials on the internet, have used the DVXuser search and read a lot (but not the answers) and I have been reading the manual and have been trying and experimenting for hours. But after three days (nights) of trying I seem to be unable to create a situation in which the Multicam:
-has the audiotracks separated to each microphone
-has two video timelines (one with four MTS files in a row and one with two AVI files in a row)
-get all of the above synchronized

I don't need the whole two hours in the end, but to make a 15 minutes highlights and summary of the conference, I'd realy benefit from a synced startingpoint.

I thing the whole problem is my learning by doing (noob), but could someone give me some advise on how to proceed at this point?


Jasper

 

[pjsssss]

First you need to map the audio to the audio tracks. Click on 1A and then type 1, click on 2A and then type 2, etc. You also have several choices in Multicam mode for sync depending on how you shot. If you need further help let me know. Drop by the GV Edius forum http://ediusforum.grassvalley.com/forum/ and check out some of the posts there.

 

[Anomie]

Thanks pjsssss! I'll try the mapping when I back home tonight.

About the syncing: I know I messed up by not making sure the two camera's had alligned/synced timecode. So I thought I could use the option of date/time (both camera's have an internal clock that was set about the same time of the day), but that does not work. Edius does something completely different... So I guess I misunderstood what the sync-option was supposed to do.

Could allways go for manual, but I feel it's a bit of a big timeloss if I do that and afterward I find out it could have been done a lot easyer.

 

[Anomie]

It doesn't realy want to work overhere...

Now I've decided to put all the HMC footage on a single timeline, choose a nice startingpoint and render it all into one file called cameraB. Edius automaticly puts a fade out/fade in on the sound where the files are supposed to follow eachother without any modification. I can't find the option to turn that of in general, but I can't remove the transition either. The manual doesn't help me much. (I found the application settings menu, where it appears to be possible to uncheck some boxes that seem to handle this feature, but I guess I am misinterpreting that as it does not make any difference...)

The idea is that I also create a cameraA (the DVX) file, with the exact same startingpoint. Those two would be thrown in the multicam mode, separating all four audiotracks (I found that one out, thanks for the directions by the way!).

Could someone assist please ?

Another thing I don't quite get is that when I 'print' (render) the timeline to a file, it takes a lot of time (30 minutes for a 5 minute clip). Though I thought I selected the exact same settings (from and to is AVCHD 720 50P). That shouldn't demand that much from my i7.

 

[Mile Bozicevic]

I'll do my best. :]

In application settings/timeline there's a third box form above, ''insert defeault transition in crossfade''. Try ticking that off (IF I understood you good up there) to get rid of those defeault transitions.

Also, you can delete it. Zoom into timeline, and click onto left/right side of transition and delete it. Check if your audio tracks are locked.


You don't need to render all clips into one file.

You can put them into Sequence 01, then open Sequence 2 and drag Sequence 01 into it. Voila. But-there's no waveform here now, just so you know.

If you do want to render those files it into something editable, the best way is to choose simply Canopus HQ avi.
You do not lose quality and u get even smoother performance than AVCHD stream.

Try to render that with your i7 and be happy with results. :]

 

[Anomie]

Thanks Mile!

I will apply your tips and suggestions tonight.

(Looking forward to be happy. Hahaha!)


Jasper

 

[Vaughan Wood]

Easiest way to sync two cameras.
Start with one camera on VA 1. Put curser near where you want to start (audio cue maybe). Put curser to the left of the cue. Trim clip just before the cue (I use N, but I have a dedicated Edius keyboard).
Open waveform display, (in Left side of timeline and Select VOL) find cue point, expand timeline out to 2 - 4 frames, clip on waveform to put an audio node on that point (so you can see it).
Repeat this on VA 2 with 2nd camera, then line up the two nodes, play timeline over that bit to check the audio is in sync with both tracks, (you may have to jiggle one track left or right by a frame or so to get it spot on), then with Crtl C, cut both tracks to the left of audio cue wherever you want it so both tracks start together, and delete gap (Right Click mouse over empty timeline area) to move both tracks to beginning of timeline.

If everything still in sync, copy track onto A1 and A2, giving you separate audio tracks, all in sync.

Then you can change to Multi Cam mode to edit. (no need to render out AVCHD track in Edius 5.5)

I'd had plenty of practice, takes me about a minute to do this.

Cheers,

Vaughan

 

[Anomie]

Thanks Vaughan. I had gotten somewhat closer to what you are describing. Haven't got used to the program just yet (so I mostly suffer from hesitation and confusion). I will go over your instruction with my footage this afternoon. Starting 'all over again' (which isn't as much of a big deal, and I want to have the 'takes me about a minute to do this' routine .

I know I don't need to render out AVCHD in Edius 5.5. That was just me being a silly noob: thought that if I could just put the two camera's in complete and separate videofiles with an identical startingpoint, I could easily take the footage to my former NLE (consumer program) and do the editing from there. No one would know. It would be my little secret. Hahaha. But that's not the way I want to work in the end.


Groeten,

Jasper

 

[inc.]

Easiest way to sync two cameras...

I know it is six months later but I wanted to say thanks to Vaughan for taking the time to post this. Very helpful.

I really like the idea to use an edit point on the volume line of the audio track waveform to assist in lining up the same points for VA1 and VA2.
I had spent days trying to do this exact procedure except with a clip marker, but it was nearly impossible to set the clip marker at the perfect sound/visual cue. Since clip markers are set in the player screen in Edius 2.5, there was no way to zoom in the timeline to get frame level precise. Also seeing the waveform makes it foolproof because you can see where the sound starts, rather than trusting your ears.

Since I don't have Multicam in Edius 2.5, I keep the various VA1, VA2, VA3 track timelines (in sync) in one sequence and cut sections of VA2 and VA3 into VA1 (which becomes my final sequence).
I am wondering if any other Neo 2.5 users have different methods for working with multicam sources?

I have been toying with the idea of spliting each VA track clip into their own sequence (after synching), then editing in a blank 4th sequence so that I don't have to overwrite one of the clip sequences.

I also read that some people leave all VA tracks in one sequence, then use mixing/transparency to select which video clip is visible. I will try this later tonight and report back.

I would appreciate additional thoughts. (I will probably get Edius 6 for multicam at some point)

 

[inc.]

Quick update on my progress...
After trying out all 3 procedures the easiest (by far) has been synching all 3 cameras tracks in one sequence and using transparency to select the visible camera shots.
Another good pointer is to use the flashes from still photographers to synchronize your camera feeds. Set an edit point in the audio/mix rubber band for each flash, then line them up. Some cameras set off a few flashes 2-3 frames apart (well in 30 fps so maybe 4-6 in 60fps) so make sure you line up the whole sequence or you could be a few frames off. This should synch you with accuracy at the frame level.