MS Stereo Recording walk-through

ok i've been interested in trying some m/s recording...

i have two oktava mk-012's

which capsule would be best? would i use the same capsule on each or is there a better combination?

also, is there a mic holder that is available that is built for m/s recording?

matthew
 
Rycote's modular suspension product line can accomodate a number of different M-S mic combinations using back-to-back clips and four-point suspension. You might be able to save a bit of money by using Rycote clips with another four-point system (such as Sennheiser's), but the only other shockmount system that I know for sure will accept an M-S pair is the DPA windscreen system. If you just want to try M-S on for size, get yourself a couple $5 mid-stand clamps and experiment with various alignment options. It takes time to set up and doesn't travel well, but its a whole lot cheaper than a specialized back-to-back mount (and can be used as an adjustable X-Y stereo bar if you decide to use two cardiod capsules instead).

As for which capsules, you'll need one figure-eight and one cardiod (or hyper or shotgun) for M-S stereo.
 
Phase.

Hmm, what can anybody here tell me about phase considerations with this set up? should I just pass on the separation distance to post, and let them adjust accordingly?

or is it not an issue since the mics are picking up different parts of the room?
 
The physical distance between the microphones can't really be adjusted in post. The further away the mic diaphragms are from one another, the less phase-coherent your resulting stereo image will become. In single-point M-S microphones like the Sennheiser MKH418 or the Shure VP88, the side capsule is mounted directly behind the front capsule. When you're using two microphones, the next best thing is to have the capsules directly on top of one another. Don't think of it as two mics, think of it as one mic with two diaphragms that you have to carefully align yourself.
 
I thought the point of single point stereo mic positioning was that you didn't have to phase correct, (obviously because there is no phase difference, sound being picked up at the same time) but phase correction will have to be performed if not using a single point system. its done in music all the time.

I'm not suggesting the distance between the mics can be adjusted in post, my queery is about the phase correction process. i agree, that the recording will be less phase coherrant, but this CAN be corrected if the physical distance during recording is known.

has anyone done this?
 
i don't believe there is a figure 8 capsule for the oktava.

can someone give us an idea what mic's you can get that capsule for?

btw, the tomlinson holman book on sound for film and television has a whole chapter on the sound reaching different places at different times and how to deal with it.

matthew
 
I record MS quite a bit with a Senn MKH 30/50 combo (the 50 is a hyper). There is no problem recording MS with a hyper as the mid - it just changes the resulting pattern a bit.

As has been stated before, there is no problem going from MS->LR->MS. The same matrix can be used in fact (add the 2 channels for one output and subtract the 2 channels for the other). I'd have no problem taking an MS recording that was matrixed to LR and taking it back to MS again for more processing. In fact, this goes on in music mastering quite a bit - the mastering engineer will take a full LR mix of a song, matrix it to MS, process the M and S differently, and take it back to LR. If you're really worried about this, try it out, matrix and dematrix the hell out of it, and see if it bothers you. If it doesn't, you've got nothing to worry about.

I personally would record to MS and convert to LR in post, but if post is uncomfortable with it, then record as LR. I thought you said you have a 744 or a 422. If you do, you should be able to record as MS but listen over the headphones as LR - best of both worlds.

As far as recording, just like usual, find a place that sounds good to your ears and stick the mics there. I usually set the gains for the M and S mics to be the same, but I'm using mics that have the same output characteristics. That way in post, I can set the levels to be the same and have a "normal" stereo mix as a reference. Adjusting the S level up or down from there will then "change" the spread.

I'd try to get a different S mic if I were you. A senn MKH30 is really nice, as is a Schoeps MK8. A bit cheaper is the AKG blueline - they have a fig 8 capsule for that. I believe Neumann has a small diaphragm fig 8 condenser too. As far as I know, the Schoeps (mk8, mk6), Neumann, and Senn MKH30 are the only "true" single diaphragm fig 8 mics (not counting ribbon mics). Not sure how the AKG blueline mic does it, and MBHO might have one as well. Any large diaphragm condenser does fig 8 by using two cardioid patterns back to back. Whether this makes a difference to you, I don't know. If you can afford it, get the schoeps or the MKH30 - both great mics.


I'd also try to get the S mic closer to the M mic. Use a separate stand if you have to and put the S mic right above the M mic. You'll probably have to position it horizontally to get it in there. I say this because one of the big perks of MS is having your mic capsules (almost) coincident, which does away with delays introduced by spaced mics.

I usually hear people say that you MUST use a specific type of pattern for the M - you don't. Different M patterns result in different LR patterns and angular spread. For example, using an omni as the M will give you 2 cardioid patterns that are separated by 180 degrees - pointing directly left and right. The more directed the M pattern, the more directed the resulting LR patterns are as well as the smaller the angular spread.

I love MS - its a lot of fun. Play around with it and find something that sounds good - if it sounds good, it is good.
 
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