Mpeg 4?

U

USLatin

Panamaniac
Please be kind, I am a practically a newborn in the editing world. :tongue:

By lossless file you guys mean same codec so it doesn't get translated,
same size...? Anything else to check when trying to render out a "lossless"?

I don't have Mpeg4 as a rendering format... can I get it? Where?
What other plug-ins should I look at? Where can I get those?

How do you guys render .mov and keep it so small, I always see
clips that look great hosted in various sections but the ones I tried
ended up being several Gigs!!! and their Mpeg2 renderings were tiny

We shot a test scene in an afternoon, mainly to get though the paces of
filming by ourselves, figuring out how to do it with 4 hands, and also so I
could cut something in Vegas to figure it out a bit more... please don't look
at the script/acting/exposure/sound so on and so forth, since we wrote it
and shot it in less than 6 hours... it is called "Vacation" shot in SD, and I
rendered it as Mpeg2 320x240 for YouTube...
When I watch it on the computer's LDC while editing and on YouTube I
see these lines on the edges of objects that are moving, the faster they
the longer the lines, then when I watch it on the TV they are gone, all
that's left is the blurry trails from when I left the shutter speed to long...
Is that the way that the info is saved for the way TVs display interlaced?
And then LCDs display the lines "off-time"...?
YouTube says to render Mpeg4!!! Would that fix the lines on YouTube?
 
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USLatinContent said:
By lossless file you guys mean same codec so it doesn't get translated, same size...? Anything else to check when trying to render out a "lossless"?
Click to expand...
Lossless means either uncompressed or using a codec that compresses without loss. The DV footage from your camera uses 5:1 compression so the DV codec is lossy (not lossless). If you are rendering DV to DV and no changes were made in the source then a smart program like Vegas will simply copy from source to target without loss. But in general, "lossless" means using a codec that does not loose any bits when encoding/decoding.

USLatinContent said:
I don't have Mpeg4 as a rendering format... can I get it? Where? What other plug-ins should I look at? Where can I get those?
Click to expand...
If you have either Vegas 6 or 7 you should have the "MainConcept AVC/AAC (*.mp4)" renderer as an option when you render.

USLatinContent said:
How do you guys render .mov and keep it so small, I always see clips that look great hosted in various sections but the ones I tried ended up being several Gigs!!! and their Mpeg2 renderings were tiny
Click to expand...
You have to use a lower bit rate. Try the 256 or 512 Kbps Video template.

USLatinContent said:
When I watch it on the computer's LDC while editing and on YouTube I see these lines on the edges of objects that are moving, the faster they the longer the lines, then when I watch it on the TV they are gone, all that's left is the blurry trails from when I left the shutter speed to long... Is that the way that the info is saved for the way TVs display interlaced? And then LCDs display the lines "off-time"...?
Click to expand...
Yup this is TV interlacing. If you want to render for the web you must deinterlace your video by rendering progressive. Press the Custom button when you render and make sure on the Video tab that the Field Order is set to None (progressive scan).

USLatinContent said:
YouTube says to render Mpeg4!!! Would that fix the lines on YouTube?
Click to expand...
Well... MPEG4 alone won't fix it unless it's also progressive. Having said that, most MPEG4 templates are set up for progressive mode so prehaps that's what they meant. Try the MainConcept render type with the Apple iPod 320x240 video setting as a starter.

~jr
 
Welcome to my "I owe you a beer" list! :dankk2:

Awsome, re-rendering a progressive version of a YouTube video right now. And I'll do the quicktime next!

I don't have the MainConcept AVC/AAC (*.mp4)... why could this be? These are the ones I have:

Audio Interchange File Format (AIFF) (*.aif)
Dolby Digital AC-3 (*.ac3)
MainConcept MPEG-1 (*.mpg)
MainConcept MPEG-2 (*.mpg)
MP3 Audio (*.mp3)
OggVorbis (*.ogg)
Quick Time 6 (*.mov)
RealMedia 9 (*.rm)
Scott Studios Wave (*.wav)
Sony Perfect Clarity Audio (*.pca)
Sony Wave64 (*.w64)
Video for Windows (*.avi)
Wave (Microsoft) (*.wav)
Windows Media Audio V9 (*.wma)
Windows Media Video V9 (*.wmv)

Can I get it? Where?
 
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Hmmm... no MPEG4 eh. What version of Vegas are you using? Perhaps the MainConcept MPEG4 codec was introduce in Vegas 7 but I'm pretty sure it's in Vegas 6 too. Or are you using Vegas Movie Studio or Vegas 5? They probably don't have it. If you have the full version of Vegas 6 or 7 (not Movie Studio) you should have it.

~jr
 
It must be v6, I'm looking at v7 right now and I see that list is also missing ATRAC, Sony AVC/AAC, Sony MSX, and it's showing QuickTime v6 (that could be dependent on what you've installed separately, I can't remember)

So, maybe an upgrade to v7 is in order. If you're doing/going to do HD/HDV you'll want(need) v7 for any decent performance anyway.

Happy shooting,
Dip
 
Progressive actually renders faster? It seemed like it, I guess it doesn't have to select split and re-organize the lines, just copy...?

I have Vegas 6.0...

I found MPEG-4 listed as one of the sizes under Quicktime...? but the size was super small, something like 190x140? Right now I am rendering different .mov sizes. I rendered a 720x480 size .mov using MPEG-4 and it looked the best I've seen my laptop display this particular video shot on the HVX on DV, best by far. AND it was a very manageable size at 2small sweet! However I can't figure out what the settings were and now I can't figure out where I set it to be MPEG-4 and 720x480... ahhhg! lol

Is there a way for me to get the MPEG-4 as an option without doing quick time? Or is there absolutely no cons about rendering .movs? compatibility shouldn't be an issue, but anything else?

Anyway, I guess it might help you understand how to help me more :beer: if I tell you what it is I am trying to do... I am concerned with only three outputs now:

YouTube
I am on to this one... but if you have any ideas or anyone when though this already, please post that for me?

DVD
I use Architect, should I stick to interlaced or will progressive be better in any way for TVs out there? Trying to output both DV projects and downconvert HD as soon as I get the SoftWrap people to figure out how not to ruin the perfectly good DVrack app. (or when I get my 8G)

Also I will try to find myself what's the best quality that my 2.2Ghz AMD turion with ATI (laptop card can display in my 17" screen... I obviousy will have to figure that out myself, but so far I rendered a few I am very happy with so don't worry about that, especially since it would be impossible for you to figure that out for me :Drogar-BigGrin(DBG) I am tryin to keep around 300MB... maybe a bit more (4:20 min. long DV).


I should go to sleep now, hope some of this makes sense if now I apologize.


Oh! I have Raylight to edit HD, but would 7.0 make it faster? How does it do that?
 
USLatinContent said:
I have Vegas 6.0... Is there a way for me to get the MPEG-4 as an option without doing quick time?
Click to expand...
It looks like you don't have the latest version of Vegas 6.0d because your list of render options does not include Sony AVC/AAC (*.mp4) which is is used for the PSP support that was added in Vegas 6. Do you have the menu option Tools > Export to PSP™ (PlayStation®Portable)...? You should. If you select it what does it do? It should use the Sony MPEG4 codec.

I would go to the Sony Media Software web site and download the latest update for Vegas 6.0d.

USLatinContent said:
DVD I use Architect, should I stick to interlaced or will progressive be better in any way for TVs out there?
Click to expand...
If you render progressive, most DVD players will convert it to interlaced for you but I would just stick to interlaced because TVs are interlaced.

USLatinContent said:
Oh! I have Raylight to edit HD, but would 7.0 make it faster? How does it do that?
Click to expand...
As far as I know, Raylight is an HD codec for the Panasonic HVX200 camera. I'm not sure how or even if it works in Vegas (I have a Sony Z1 camera). I assume its like the CineForm codec that Vegas uses.

~jr
 
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I had 6.0a (build 99), it was purchased way before the PSP was even out, but I just downloaded the update and now I have 6.0d (build 210!), thanks for mentioning it... I've been so busy with what it already had that I never thought to look for free updates!

PSP export is there now. MPEG-4 is there toooooo!!!!!! YAAAAAY! You rock, and I feel kinda dumb, but I guess it is hard to look at the whole picture when you are holding your notebook to your face as close as I have been lately!:dankk2:
 
You're welcome. I love a good mystery. :) Glad we solved this one for ya'. Now go make some more great movies.

~jr
 
Yea :thumbup: , so I will ask one more thing if you don't mind. On regards to the use of these codecs... (feel free to tell me to f-off) :)

MPEG-4... When is it better? Besides YouTube saying that they like it, when do I want to render MPEG-4, MPEG-2?
Are QTs good for "bigger" (~200-350MB) files to show your reel on your slower laptops? Then "smaller" (~20-50MB) QTs for over the internet?
Are WMAs just plain garbage or do they have something they exel in?
Any others? There's so many!
Any pointers on the audio codecs?
 
MPEG4 gives you higher quality at lower bitrates. It should be used whenever bitrate is constrained. It is used for PSP’s, iPod’s, and a growing number of web video. All of these are bitrate constrained environments. MPEG4 is also being used for some HD delivery because it does so well at compressing with good quality.

MPEG2 is used for DVD’s (up to 9KBps). At higher bitrates (25KBps), MPEG2 Transport Streams are also used for HDV acquisition in cameras. If you are going to deliver on DVD, HD-DVD or Blur-ray you would use the MPEG2 codec. (just because it’s the standard for those formats not because it’s better)

WMV uses Microsoft’s MPEG4 codec and it’s quite good but not as good as the latest crop of MPEG4 codecs. Nothin’ wrong with trying it out and seeing what you think.

QuickTime (.mov) is a container that can hold any codec you want including MPEG4. Since Macs can’t easily use WMV files but almost all PC’s have QuickTime installed, MOV files are another good internet delivery format that works on most PCs and all Macs.

Just to recap: MPEG4 and MPEG2 are codecs and QuickTime is a container (much like AVI files on the PC) that can contain any codec.

~jr
 
USLatinContent said:
I found MPEG-4 listed as one of the sizes under Quicktime...? but the size was super small, something like 190x140? Right now I am rendering different .mov sizes. I rendered a 720x480 size .mov using MPEG-4 and it looked the best I've seen my laptop display this particular video shot on the HVX on DV, best by far. AND it was a very manageable size at 2small sweet! However I can't figure out what the settings were and now I can't figure out where I set it to be MPEG-4 and 720x480... ahhhg! lol



Oh! I have Raylight to edit HD, but would 7.0 make it faster? How does it do that?
Click to expand...


I do this all the time. I'll do something fairly slick and high end on Vegas and pat myself of the back. Then 5 minutes later a realize I have no idea how to repeat what I've just accomplished. From genious to moron in 5 minutes. Happens about 3x a week.

Also, you Vegas has cineform already on it, It's better than raylight from what I know. I use it all the time to edit HDV.
 
Vegas has a lot of options for "Render as". I don't know what most of them are. For example, what the heck is Oggvorbis??????

Is there a cheat sheet somewhere that summarizes them?
 
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