Moving an Oktava?

Greggl

Greggl

Well-known member
I recently picked up an Oktava MK012/Hyper cap and really love the
sound. I do however, get an electrical buzzing with anything more
than very slight motion or any air movement.

Are these mics just super sensitive to movement?
 
Electrical buzzing? Can you describe this better?

Buzzing should be either a connector problem or electrical/radio interference...

Suffice to say, it's NOT a normal by-product of motion (motion sounds would be more rumbling/thumping).

The only other thought I have so far is that motion rumbling/thumping might be overloading your preamp and making clipping sounds... but really, we need to hear more about the sound.
 
I've spent the last 10 minutes trying to find an old post of mine... now it's driving me nuts... I'll check over at DV.com and see if it turns up there.

The gist is that you need good shockmounting and windprotection for this mic. I described this problem before. I want to find the exact post because you'll laugh at the wording... with the example you have posted it will make a lot of sense.

EDIT: Man I need a life... I found it after nearly 30 minutes searching. Reaching a couple years back here.

"The Oktava's are stupidly sensitive to windnoise. In another post some guy asked what the noise was in his recording (using an Oktava) and everybody looked for problems in the chain of aquisition... I'm the one who said, "I guarantee it's windnoise"... and I STILL guarantee it WAS windnoise. ANY wind getting to the cap of the Oktava creates noise... it's not always rumble... sometimes it sounds like mic distortion... almost like a "buzz" accompanying transients. Pop on a Windtech or BBG and that is gone."
 
Hehe... I did a bunch of digging around and came up pretty empty but I did
have a sneaking suspicion that it was going to be a handling issue and most
likely not the mic itself :)
 
I had the exact same "electrical buzzing" that baffled myself and another videographer. I asked The Sound Room about it and they told me to send it back. So that's where it is. But if it's just clipping from wind noise, then I guess I'm out of luck unless I get some decent wind protection. And I know that this was always recommended, but I didn't realize it was so unusable without anything (BTW, the $7 Windtech screen does nothing to solve this problem).

On second thought, clipping from wind noise doesn't make sense. If you lightly tap the mic, the same "electrical buzzing" occurs. So why would the mic clip in this instance?
 
Not wind noise.... RUMBLE and wind noise. The main problem is bass rumble, much of which is inaudible but hard on a preamp.
 
The first thing I tell every single person that I make the Oktava recommendation to is to not skimp on shock/wind.

Every audio guy says the same thing. If you're budget doesn't allow for proper support of the mic you want then you should get a cheaper mic.

The mount and screen aren't matters of black and white... you need to meet the minimum requirements to be happy. For the Oktava that means the SabraSom, PSC universal short, AT (if it fits), or IDEALLY the K-SSM with soft bands... and for wind it means the Shure WS81 (or whatever that number is... it's $29), the Windtech screen which is $40-50, or IDEALLY the BBG at $125.

Thems the breaks... but I didn't keep this stuff a secret. Proper support is as important to sweet audio as sugar is to Kool-Aid.
 
MattinSTL said:
Proper support is as important to sweet audio as sugar is to Kool-Aid.
Click to expand...

Oh, if only good audio were so easy! "HEY! SWEET AUDIO!"

Or thinking about it, I guess it's us crashing through the wall... Kool!
 
All right, well riddle me this. It wasn't wind noise when I would barely touch/tap the mic and get the electric buzzing. BUT it also shouldn't have been mount related, as I was using a SabraSom in my testing. The mic was completely stationary in the shock mount on top of the DVX, which was resting on the table. Any little tap to the mic produced the electric buzzing.

So... :undecided
 
vroom said:
I asked The Sound Room about it and they told me to send it back. So that's where it is.
Click to expand...

The guys are having me do the same thing. This is beyond wind noise. I've worked
with high-end audio aquisition in the past, but this is the first time I've ever had
any digital gear in the loop. As is, the mic is pretty much not usable any movement,
even full shockmounted, is causing the buzz or tripping up the preamp. This is with
a dvx100b, so the goosed audio may be contributing.

Its a great sounding mic.. I want to keep using it, I'm hoping its just a bad connection
or a problem with the cap.
 
I am not really sure what this problem that you are having with your Oktava is because I have been using one for months with no problem. I use it boomed and have done sweeping movements with it, followed people around with it, and have used it in both interior and exterior environments.

I have mine mounted in an Audio Technica 851 shockmount with double enforced softbands and a little wrap job that I made. Furthermore, for interiors I use the Oktava with sound-rooms high wind protection and exteriors a Rycote BBG.

The first thing I would do is look into your cables, make sure you are using something decent. Next I would look at the cap connections, make sure that everything is solid. From that point, call your vendor. Mine sounds great and with proper use I have no handling noise.
 
If anybody's having problems with an Oktava please include the name of the store.

I'm not going to blindly recommend something that has problems... but in my own experience the Oktava needs GOOD shockmount and GOOD windscreen and I tell everybody that from the start. I even quoted myself from nearly two years ago stressing that the Oktava can make a "buzzy electrical sound with transients" if it's not properly mounted and windprotected.

The statements about tapping the mic while it's in the shockmount are confusing me also... what do you mean "tapping the mic"? The shockmount works by isolating the mic from shock... so if you bypass that by tapping the mic then you've effectively defeated the whole purpose of the shock mount...?

You know the old cliche' of the guy talking to the doctor and he says, "Doc... it hurts when I do THIS."

Doctor says, "well don't do that."

Shock mounts don't guarantee perfect audio with ANY mic... you still need to try to be careful with it. There's no reason why anything should ever physically touch a mic while it's in a shock mount and recording. If I tap on the AKG ULS I can hear a "ting" sound, but nobody would ever know it.

You guys have definitely peaked my curiosity. I've got a bunch of mounts and a couple Oktavas... looks like it's time for another crappy video installment.
 
MattinSTL said:
If anybody's having problems with an Oktava please include the name of the store.
Click to expand...

I got mine from Sound Room and they have been excellent so far in dealing with
the issue. I'm using canare/neutrik cables from Filmtools, direct into my 100b. I
get the buzz with both my 3 and 25 foot cables.

With a bit more investigation, the buzz seems to occur with any movement
where sound is being metered above 1 bar below 'red'. Its mic specific as I can
peak another cheaper mic as well as the built in much higher. With no movement
and no wind, it'll 'buzz' with three red bars.

Its not a sound that I've ever heard before from a mic.. as I mentioned, most of
my experience has been analog nagra, so there is a complete possibility that I'm
just hearing the digital clipping from the preamp/camera.
 
What you are hearing is not likely to be wind noise but is Handling noise. The Oktava's like the Schoeps are very sensitive to handling noise. What sounds like electrical noise is in fact the huge low frequency bump of the handling noise. It's mostly sub sonic so you don't "hear" it but it is overloading your preamp. You can help the situation if your preamp has a low end roll off that you can switch in. This may cut enough to get rid of the overload, though you will still have a "bump". The Oktava should never be hand held with out some kind of shock mount. Wind is also an issue but your sample is handling noise I think.
SK

scottkouesound.com



ullanta said:
Oh, if only good audio were so easy! "HEY! SWEET AUDIO!"

Or thinking about it, I guess it's us crashing through the wall... Kool!
Click to expand...
 
Two things the pre amps on the DVX100 while pretty good are no comparison to the Nagra. You should stop referring to the sound as a buzz because it is very misleading to those that have not heard your example. The electrical sound you are getting is the preamp overloading. It is distortion not buzzing. You have to forget what you paid for the Oktava, and treat it like a schoeps because that is what it is a clone of. Most "cheap" mics have a very limited response. They don't go too high and the roll off before they get very low (many at 80 - 100 Hz). The Oktava will go VERY low, subsonic in fact. The other factor is the phantom power. Is it really 48? I don't know but many phantom power supplies put out less than 48. Low phantom power will make the mic more susceptible to low frequency distortion. Also "tapping" the mic will absolutely cause the kind of distortion you recorded. The fact that other mic's didn't is an indication of their limitations not a weakness in the Oktava. The Oktava is also a rather "hot" mic so putting the 10dB pad on may help with the preamp overload.

SK
scottkouesound.com





Greggl said:
I got mine from Sound Room and they have been excellent so far in dealing with
the issue. I'm using canare/neutrik cables from Filmtools, direct into my 100b. I
get the buzz with both my 3 and 25 foot cables.

With a bit more investigation, the buzz seems to occur with any movement
where sound is being metered above 1 bar below 'red'. Its mic specific as I can
peak another cheaper mic as well as the built in much higher. With no movement
and no wind, it'll 'buzz' with three red bars.

Its not a sound that I've ever heard before from a mic.. as I mentioned, most of
my experience has been analog nagra, so there is a complete possibility that I'm
just hearing the digital clipping from the preamp/camera.
Click to expand...
 
The buzzy electrical sound is from windnoise, not handling noise. I couldn't stand to hear people talking smack about my beloved Oktava... so I had to check this stuff out for myself.

YES... Noiz2 is correct about the DVX pre-amps really showing their weaknesses like this. I'm going to send an email to Paul over at Sound Room... or else I'll call him tomorrow. He needs to be aware of the situation. Once again... what I said before is still true. If you want to be happy with this mic you need to put it in a shockmount and decent windscreen. Then you should still take precautions to handle it smoothly just like you should with ANY mic. Shockmounts and not excuses to be ham-fisted with the boom.

I can replicate this sound when running my Oktavas directly into my DVX... and it's more associated with wind noise (from side to side motion of the mic) then it is from handling noise (but moving the mic while handling it sloppy will make the sound also). So there was probably nothing wrong with that mic... it is as Noiz2 has said... this mic has very extended bass and highs compared to many cheaper mics.

I CAN NOT replicate this sound when running the Oktava into the Fp24 and 671!

Maybe I shouldn't record stuff when I'm tired... but here it is anyway:

1) Oktava running directly into DVX with no screen or mount CLICK HERE
2) Oktava running directly into DVX with BBG but no mount CLICK HERE
3) Oktava running into FP24 then 671 with no screen or mount CLICK HERE

Sorry the levels are a little low on the last one... this was a rush job and I'm tired. I just wanted to show you the distortion that I can get running directly into the DVX and I can rumble the poo out of it with wind and NOT get that distortion running it into the 671. The buzzy electrical sound is caused more from wind then handling noise... but it's impossible to make that buzzy electrical sound in the FP24 or the 671... and you can avoid that buzzy electrical sound if you get a good windscreen and mount... even if you DO run it directly into the DVX.
 
MattinSTL said:
The buzzy electrical sound is from windnoise, not handling noise. ...


I can replicate this sound when running my Oktavas directly into my DVX... and it's more associated with wind noise (from side to side motion of the mic) then it is from handling noise (but moving the mic while handling it sloppy will make the sound also). ...

I CAN NOT replicate this sound when running the Oktava into the Fp24 and 671!...

and you can avoid that buzzy electrical sound if you get a good windscreen and mount... even if you DO run it directly into the DVX.
Click to expand...

So what is it... a frequency-dependent spike in the preamp response? Interesting.

I've never heard anything like this from any of my (6) MC12s... but I tend to use 'em on stands, rarely use hypercards, and almost never run 'em directly into the DVX.
However, my tidbit here is that I almost never use windscreens (ALWAYS use shockmounts), and even in sound checks and such with people swishing close by, dufuses blowing into the mics, and in one or two cases where people tried to "beatbox" the poor things (long story), etc., I've never heard this particular effect. So I'm not sure about the wind vs. handling issue here... I've heard plenty of effects of both, and it's the handling (or maybe the combined wind/handling) that seems to be much worse. And, yes, likely the preamps that are most important in the equation.

Also, I'm not sure if it's a preamp noise or a preamp spike overloading the converters.... but certainly the combination...
 
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