mounting jib to van

morgan_moore said:
You may notice that there are a series of holes in the rig so the struts can be set at accute or less accute angles so it can be 'tuned' without using adjustable struts like you get on the black arm.

Also the rig adjusts for/aft giving it more/less leverage on the struts.. another means of tuning.

I started with some strutts from an scrap Merc A class boot. They were too hard and said 400n on them... I then bought some stutts that are 200n

I think those are the numbers.

Garage science.

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The four verticals are a parallelogram (sprung) that allows the rig to move fore aft to account for movement in that axis - ie smoothing braking and acceleration movements.

Every axis the springs hit multiple holes so can be 'tuned'

S
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I was wondering where to even begin as far as selecting proper tension struts. That helps.
You are very smart. Earlier I was thinking you would have to change struts when changing to a different camera weight but now I see you've already allowed for that by the ability to change the acute-ness of the angles. Bravo!
The more I look at your design the more I'm impressed with how good it is. And the more I see how much this is all over my level.
When I saw this video here I thought it might not be too super hard to get good results mounting a camera to a car with an isolator and gimbal.
https://vimeo.com/160542127

And I saw a video where some guys had a simple seven jib in the back of an old truck and got some good shots. I figured they got a lot more bad shots but that with a gimbal and more effort put into the design it might be possible to get a lot of good results.

This seems to be quite a niche field, but at least now there are some people trying it and some companies making products. 20 years ago I had no choice but to just hang out a car with a camera and hold on.
 
Im very aware of both the the Cloud Mount (I bought one) and the Seven Jib videos (and every other video on the planet about russian arms, chapman lenoard stabilisers etc)

Both systems will get you some shots

I think UK roads are really bad - also my van has pretty hard shocks also my Ronin M just feels like the motors are weak even with the BM Micro camera - all these add up to a real challenge

My rig is far from perfect and is challenged by a S35-50 lens - its also far from properly tuned - tuning is a nasty process - I did that by mounting it on my bench at my studio not on location.

Its a really fun game and I cant say that my designs are any good at this point

I think there is a potential for a jib working well - any system with a human operator who can damp it seems good - our hands are wonderful at 'tuning' and removing micro vibrations

Go Play! The main thing I can offer up is..

- the system must be free to move in the XY and Z axes.
-dont be convinced of any product whose promotional video is full of hards cuts and short takes - look for whole shot videos.

I talked to a GOT grip and he said its just a journey towards longer takes and longer lenses in all grip systems.
 
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This is a fun watch a test around our yard which is full off horrid holes.. looking at it again is pretty crazy rig -looking at the rig I was amazed that the footage was close to usable.



A dissapointment (earlier build - no fore aft freedom translates the energy into a left right vibration but the side struts look sexy on corners! A 12yo kid is operating!)

 
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Morgan_moore thank you. Your rig progress is VERY impressive. Seeing how rough that yard drive was yet how good your system worked is quite an accomplishment.
The BM micro is pretty small - 11 oz without lens? The primary camera I want to use is .7lbs total.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1333545-REG/panasonic_ag_uck20gj_compact_camera_head.html
You mentioned weak motors with the Ronin M. Do you think the MX would be worth it in my situation?
Also, your channel has great stuff. You really have skills! Far far beyond me

I see this is going to be much more difficult than I first envisioned. The great input from everyone here has given some improved ideas. I see that I am certainly not capable of accomplishing this to the level I want because I lack both the skill and time it would take. However I think with some work I can get some acceptable results.

I'd like to rig up some speedrails and buy a black arm, haha. But no way can justify that at this point.
 
I think the ronin M is a fine gimbal doubtles the MX better.. but neither have the GPS system you need for cornering G forces - they both think the horizon is in the wrong place when you are cornering but high g cornering shots are a nadir really. Just avoidging vibration is the first challenge.

A low mass camera I think a double situation.

The stresses are low, the engineering easy but the resonant frequencty of those low mass systems higher (looks bad) than big cameras.. big cameras and systems seem to kind of interia thier way through problems a bit why the jib works maybe

Big cameras are a bit like a wrecking ball if you get me.. they have a tendency to go in one direction (looks good)

A little camera on a Crane or other tiny little gimbal might also work well as they dont take a lot of force to hold in the right place. One of the genius of gopros is how small and compact they are and how short the mount is - which means low resonant freqencies too or low mass or something.

Think about twanging a ruller on a table - a long ruler has a low freuenct of oscillation but also moves a long way, I really short ruler just doesnt twang much at all!

So its all a bit beyond me small vs big!

If I had that camera id be looking to buy a really small gimbal - one of the one hand versions - you know hand holding that on a stick with a conter balance might be amazing!
 
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For a tiny camera Id start like this..

zingbong crane gimbal 1.5m 1in tube, counter mass of about the same as the camera rig, inverted bmx forks (on headset), bungee chord mount* - make a 'gimbal' between the forks by wrapping the bungee in figure 8 around the fork spars and the tube

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BTW - I might be following completel the wrong track with all my thoughts. Invent you own stuff!


* dont underate bungee as an engineering solution, it absorbe energy unlike metal springs and is often easy to tune by winding up or shortening - its a 'serious' engineering solution!
 
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That makes sense. Lots to understand about all this. As you said earlier, going to take quite a bit of testing various configurations to see how different things cope and react
 
I've been wondering if just suspending a gimbal from a bungee in the open door might be the simplest and work just as well as my trying to rig up a bunch of stuff since I don't know much, lol.

except for the jib idea that sticks out the open van, Ive been trying to move away from having to have someone shooting out open vehicles and move to mounted remote cameras. It's safer and attracts much less attention. For years I've been doing it handheld but you are limited to where and when you can do that. :)
 
I don't see the parallelogram thing doing anything in the first video of post 23. Is that right?

Why do you need the left/right swing function? Is that to take left right sway from the van out?
 
firehawk said:
I've been wondering if just suspending a gimbal from a bungee in the open door might be the simplest and work just as well as my trying to rig up a bunch of stuff since I don't know much, lol.

except for the jib idea that sticks out the open van, Ive been trying to move away from having to have someone shooting out open vehicles and move to mounted remote cameras. It's safer and attracts much less attention. For years I've been doing it handheld but you are limited to where and when you can do that. :)
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Yep this is basically what im saying - bungee and short jib - at least you can probably keep everyone strapped in and just poke it out the van by .5m for starters

my arm is about being legal as my previous steadicam out of the back shots where not viable on commercial productions.

S
 
Paul F said:
I don't see the parallelogram thing doing anything in the first video of post 23. Is that right?

Why do you need the left/right swing function? Is that to take left right sway from the van out?
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I cant really either - maybe its not!.. but when it was added the vibes went that you see in the 'dissabpointment' video.

The left right swing is the same thing - if there is a hard restriction in any axis shake justs permeates the rig.

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Consider a 4.4 driving along the side of a mountain, the shocks are now at the wrong angle compared to gravity - hence the need for a shock system that will bounce when hit with off axis forces.

In design the 'mountain' situation is unlikely but gives a concept that 3 axes of freedom are needed , even on a mild camber a one axis arm wont be working against gravity properly.
 
just curious, but surely someone has mounted a handheld gimbal device like the Zhiyun-Tech on a Ronin, no? Is it gimbal mounted on a gimbal better than a gimbal alone as far as removing vibration? Or not necessarily so and the math just doesn't work like that?

What about an Osmo mounted on a Zhiyun which is mounted on a Ronin which itself is mounted on a Steadicam? ( Why am I suddenly thinking of "Turducken"? )
 
JPNola said:
Well, I'm not as ambitious but some guys in my market created the following, which I offer up as potential inspiration:

View attachment 133501


Here is their website: http://shootseeker.com


The key in their beast(s) is that stabilized remote head.


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As far as a Ronin / Jib combo, these guys are mounting their Ronin to a Cinevate Jib:

http://iamrobhughes.co.uk/equipment-hire/
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Thank you JPNola. That bar going up from the receiver hitch is how I intend to mount my "hitch cam" which is another project I am working on in addition to the jib idea. That would allow me to have adjustable heights to attach the cheeseplate/isolator/gimbal/camera. Orginally I was just going to have one height but that would be limiting and a bar going up would allow great versatilty. I just need to figure a good way to attach the stuff to the bar so it can easily be adjusted up and down.


Looks like they have some good setups and that fancy Scorpio head is key.
 
JPNola said:
just curious, but surely someone has mounted a handheld gimbal device like the Zhiyun-Tech on a Ronin, no? Is it gimbal mounted on a gimbal better than a gimbal alone as far as removing vibration? Or not necessarily so and the math just doesn't work like that?

What about an Osmo mounted on a Zhiyun which is mounted on a Ronin which itself is mounted on a Steadicam? ( Why am I suddenly thinking of "Turducken"? )
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I've wondered the same thing. Would they improve things or work against each other? Or neither?

And could a "double" gimbal be invented where one handled horizontal forces and the other vertical...
 
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