Most promising Movi alternative?

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fuzzybabybunny

Active member
I'm seriously considering buying two Movi alternatives because current mechanical stabilizers have too high of a learning curve and require tons of time spent balancing. We want to be able to just walk through the interior of a house all in one shot and have it all be perfectly stabilized.

Defy Gimbal - not very inspiring.

http://defygimbal.com/ - "DEMO FOOTAGE AND BEHIND THE SCENES: DEFY G2" shows TONS of footsteps in the earlier shot

BeSteady One - looks more promising and more smooth - http://vimeo.com/68454226

But really, all of these sample clips that they show suck. They're out in the open where it's so hard to see if there is shake or wobble! They need to take it and walk it through a house. With the plethora of vertical lines inside a house, one can easily see if the thing can keep all the vertical lines parallel with each other and avoid any kind of tilting. There are also a ton of horizontal lines that a person can use to gauge how well the footsteps are dampened.
 
I haven't used one of these gimbals, but there are a few things that come to mind that they are not everything we might imagine.

- Unlike stabilizers, they don't compensate for vertical movement. This has to be done by the operator's skill.
- Most of them are designed for small, light cameras. Adding more weight capacity will make them much more difficult to use. More battery, bigger motors. They may be just as bad, if not worse than a stabilizer for larger cameras. They may not be practical above a certain weight.
- The remote pan and tilt has a pan and scan look to it. It doesn't have the nice smooth analog pan or tilt that a head or stabilizer has. That is the nature of remote control. It would take a sophisticated remote system to get over this.
- A 3 axis gimbal must use two operators and remote control
- A 2 axis gimbal without remote control has no capability to tilt. It can use remote control, but then the remote operator will be interacting with the gimbal operator during pans. This will be difficult to do.
- The gimbal does not eliminate the balance problem. In fact, it may worse because you must balance it for perfect center of gravity in 2 or 3 axis. The motors are likely marginally capable (they need to be small and light). So the unit must be perfectly balanced. A lens change means re-balance. These units do not have a gear like a stabilizer does to make this easier. You have to loosen screws or nuts (perhaps several), tighten it up, test, and repeat. A zoom lens with the focal length changed will require a rebalance.

I like this technology, but it needs a lot of sorting out. I want to adapt it to my jib to eliminate the parallel/guy strut. It will also eliminate some cabling, but add more weight at the head for a battery. But I don't think the RC control is good enough yet for proper pan/tilt.
 
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The key phrase in your post was "perfectly stabilized". While that is technically an objective result, as far as most people are concerned that definition is pretty subjective. Most skilled Steadicam operators view the Movi footage as being rather flawed in key areas, while other viewers are going ga-ga over it (to be fair, some Steadicam operators thing their footage is flawless while it falls short by other's yardsticks).

It remains to be seen whether the gimbal rigs will replace Steadicams for many users. I think they will for quite a few (and future generations of the technology will close the gap further). The main reason for this as you noted is the learning curve, which is minor for the gimbals and major for the Steadicams. It is however just as quick if not quicker to balance a Steadicam--but again, learning curve is relevant here. While a newbie may take 30 minutes plus (hours? days?!) to properly balance a Steadicam to a new camera, an experienced operator can do it in 5, virtually with their eyes closed, and even if it's off a little, can compensate for slight imbalance in their operating. The gimbal rigs require exacting balance which takes longer.

There's also the argument of tech available today vs tech promised for tomorrow. By the time enough of the gimbal rigs are actually shipping and field-proven to the point where you could make an informed decision of which one is the best, you could have bought a Steadicam and get good enough at it to produce the results you desire.
 
Wait, so none of these gyro stabilizers are capable of one-manned operation?

The person walking can't also be doing precise aiming? The framing and aiming all has to be remote controlled by a second operator?
 
There is the capability for one-man operation (Majestic mode on the Movi) but it is not as precise due to the operational delay.

This is all a work in progress. The next few years will see a steady evolution of this tech. As usual, early adopters will have to deal with newer, better, cheaper versions emerging (most likely at a dizzying rate). Unlike Steadicam-style stabilizers, this is far from a mature product. Caveat emptor.
 
It can be done by one operator, but control is very difficult. If your walking or running and carrying a camera rig with shifting positions, and all you have is a thumb to control 2 axis, well, that would be very difficult to do. I would think that would be much harder to do than a stabilizer. 3 axis would be nearly impossible with a 3 axis joystick.
 
I believe that ultimately, the best application of these systems will be married to a Steadicam-type arm and vest solution. While the sex appeal of a rig that can from floor level to over your head is attractive in product demo videos, in the real world it is only a small percentage of shots that would require that type of flexibility. A three-section stabilizer arm would provide nearly all of the boom range that one's arms could achieve and the key is that the weight is removed from the operator's arms and transferred to the body. This would free up the operator to manage the delicacy of aiming the rig. There is no reason that a two axis joystick or stiff stick could not be employed effectively in this scenario given some practice; that's essentially the Jimmy Jib modality. Three axis work would be more tricky but again, how often is that called for, especially in this day and age where dutch tilts are pretty much out of style. Ultimately, controlling pan and tilt via joystick is quite a bit easier than doing so with a gimballed stabilizer where one must account for inertia, variation in force required for each axis, wind and other variables.
 
Yeah I'm about to buy a steadicam flyer and while I was hesitant because of this new stuff, I'm just not sold on it. The videos seem rough.
 
Personally I'm holding off on my stabilizer investment. All of these products are very new and the competition is just warming up. Most likely at the end of the week we'll be hearing about the MoVI M5. Competing products like the Defy are going to put pressure on Freefly, and I think within a few months we'll start to see who's really making a quality product at the right price point.

Most likely I'm just going to go with a Steadicam but I'm very interested in what's happening with these new systems.
 
Justin @ Glasshaus said:
Personally I'm holding off on my stabilizer investment. All of these products are very new and the competition is just warming up. Most likely at the end of the week we'll be hearing about the MoVI M5. Competing products like the Defy are going to put pressure on Freefly, and I think within a few months we'll start to see who's really making a quality product at the right price point.

Most likely I'm just going to go with a Steadicam but I'm very interested in what's happening with these new systems.
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Yeah I hear you. My problem is I've found a steadicam for a pretty good deal so its hard to pass up. I don't see these 3-axis systems doing such a good job handling vertical movements. But as you say, in a year they could be a ton better, or even push the Movi price down to where I would buy a DSLR version, such as 3-4k. I'm in a tough spot lol
 
i really am excited about this but will wait for a while untill they are tested, improved and have dropped in price a bit
 
aras said:
i really am excited about this but will wait for a while untill they are tested, improved and have dropped in price a bit
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We are also working in our 3 axis gimbal, now we are testing a Gopro3 3 axis gimbal, but we are also working in a system with a Lumix GH2.In our experience all this material works really well but you are true, price is very high, there are a lot of people working on this systems and the price down quickly.

I post a video we've done with our first Gopro3 prototype, initially we made a 2-axis but we were not happy with result, there are a lot of difference from 2 axis to full 3 axis stabilization.


jlcortex

 
this year I was on IBC 2013 and the most interesting rig I have seen there is this. http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/flowcine-gravity-one-camera-stabilizer/x/4713408 They are based in Sweden and this rig starts from manual mechanical stabilization and can be upgraded to 1, 2 and 3 axis gyrostabilized sensor motorized rig. The manual also accepts Kenyon gyros as it was also demoed in IBC 2013, and though I didn't tried it most guys were really blown from the performance and the specs. Johan the inventor of easy rig was there , running around with it, and he was really pleased. I think this rig seems to be making the difference since its made to perform with cameras up to 15kg and at any make and size with out limitations, and that seems to be the case for the manual and motorized versions. Its also very well made and takes a lot of abuse , as the guy running around with it was really giving it a hard time with a full size epic with redvolts and a monitor. the guy said it works with most pro cameras Alexa, F35 , ETC and the only thing that its needed more or less is some top plate or even cheese plates adaption. he also said that the production is heavily modified and that its upgraded with steadicam style trim stages and so much more. And that he will show the production design concept in the first week of October on the campaign updates. Well if I had an easyrig I would definatly buy it, if its good enough for Johan its good enough for me, and I like the fact that they have full specs and not mambo jumbo BS. They are the only ones so far that they are very open and provide full specs that makes sense and not limited options. Too bad I didn't test it . The mechanical design looks superb and I can only imagine that the production unit will be awesome. Shame I didn't get to test it though. Now I regret it. Check it out www.flowcine.com
 
I did test the Flowcine G1 and it is a very good piece of kit. Very sturdy indeed and can take a lot of cameraweight.
 
bepperton said:
Does the Movi seem like the clear cut favourite in quality?
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I would say yes. It is quite amazing on an octocopter. Like previous posts have mentioned it is only stabilized on three axis not five so there is vertical and horizontal movements that are noticeable when not perfectly handled. But with a proper balance it is pretty much perfectly stable.
 
The Phoenix A50 by PhotoshipOne will probably be pretty good too. But I doubt it will be as good as the MoVI.
 
BeSteady seem to have high quality too, custom boards, software ect and are working on various cool accessories including a thumb control follow focus (nice!!).
 
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