Most convincing way to add source/diagetic music to a scene?

[Supertramp]

Well, sorry to be dragging up an old thread, but I wanted to honor what I said in my previous post. Better late than never! Got caught up with work and didn't do anything with this short for a few months and then just randomly got the gumption to finish it this week. Thanks for your advice guys, it really helped. Plenty of issues with the short, especially the first half, but overall I feel a sense of accomplishment now that it's finally complete!

http://vimeo.com/57123887
The password is: daisychain

 

[Noiz2]

So... did you have a girlfriend that FU$%ed you over? Named Daisy?

BTW I have a short I keep archived that the director does come back to periodically - though not for a few years now- that I started on in 1990 or so. So good job in finishing!!!


Cit.

The opening is slow... All that texting needs to be speeded up, it really bogs down and there isn't a big payoff.

Crix OK, but maybe some city? - a directors choice but I would have more something there.

Door close I would have had some of those multiple locks close, It sounds OK but you show a door with a lot of locks and then don't use them - think Checkov and the gun over the mantle, Show it use it.
Im also missing a lot of Foley, or FX. The basics are there but I would fill out the "world" more.

That said, good job and thanks for following up.

 

[Egg Born Son]

Haha, that turned out really good. The music was very effective. It wasn't intrusive (it was halfway through before I remembered that it was what I was supposed to be paying attention to - good job) and told the story. Don't be surprised if parents don't let your students attend class anymore!

I agree with Noiz2. The start needs to go. Not just modified, gone. It adds nothing storywise that doesn't come out more naturally later on. It destroys your otherwise finely tuned pacing. The foreshadowing of 'eet you' is bad. Either it gives the game away completely or if the viewer missed it, will groan on repeat viewing. Meeting online is addressed later. From the point she enters the apartment the film is spot on. So start there. The facebook scene at the end is fine.

The simplest edit would be to start at the titles. I'm not sure if the walk up to the apartment is even needed. Maybe try starting with black titles and begin the movie from 1.56. Or better yet have the doorbell ring over the black title and start at 2.00. Or if you like the walk up (it's a less impactful than 'starting in the middle' but on the other hand it's one of the nicest shots cinematography-wise) then start the movie about 1.48 have her walk up to the door, replace the visual with the title (but keep the audio) while she rings the doorbell.

With any of these starts the sense of mystery is instant. Who is she? Why is she a little nervous? We see her but not him initially...ooo, that's deliberate...what's going on here? The audience member is instantly drawn in by these questions. The messaging intro by comparison is not engaging and will push the audience's attention away. Then, if you haven't lost them completely you have to win them back. The exposition is clumsy and the foreshadowing of 'eet you' is pretty on the nose.

From the titles onwards...loved it! Not 100% perfect but damn close, everything exceeds my expectations for your budget and experience by a big margin. I'd have to really dig into it to find any constructive criticism. Seriously impressed. Thanks for the followup.

 

[Supertramp]

Thanks guys, these responses are exactly what I need! My friends around here just seem happy to see something that's remotely coherent and I guess they don't feel so comfortable offering constructive criticism or advice, which I need. I'm going to remove the opening sequence, which I personally also really hate myself, but I felt I needed it purely for exposition as I feared some people might be confused or poke holes in the story (there are many). But I guess the short is pure fluff anyway and people aren't going to pick it apart while it's playing. I need to stop myself from having the urge to explain everything. I underestimated the audience's openness and ability to fill in the gaps. I totally agree that it's horrible and it's one of the parts that causes me to grit my teeth.

I really like the suggestion of cutting the walk up to the apartment at the doorbell and retaining the audio. I don't want to remove the scene entirely because I feel it helps establish the environment and mood. I like the idea of adding a double bolt sound effect, that's pretty funny, I'll look into it. Regarding the crickets, the funny thing is that to me it feels normal because that place actually has crickets outside, but no traffic. But of course, what matters is what's in the frame and the impression it gives. So I'm going to look into changing that.

So I'm going to revise one last time this evening taking these suggestions on board and that'll be it. I'll replace the file on the same link. I've got to let it go, forgive it's flaws and move onto another one. Maybe something a little less cheesy. This experience has definitely reminded me that the best way to learn is to make stuff even when you don't know what you're doing. Thanks for the kind words too, makes me feel encouraged.

As for my motivation, thankfully there's no real life Daisy! The only reason this story exists is because the actress had a desire to die gruesomely in an effects shot. Truly terrible motivation for creating a story, but we had a lot of fun.

 

[Egg Born Son]

I felt I needed it purely for exposition as I feared some people might be confused or poke holes in the story (there are many). But I guess the short is pure fluff anyway and people aren't going to pick it apart while it's playing. I need to stop myself from having the urge to explain everything. I underestimated the audience's openness and ability to fill in the gaps.

Less is almost always more. Part of the joy of watching a film is putting the pieces together to understand it on the micro level. A film is a puzzle. When someone climbs up a ladder to the roof, you show them place a foot on the bottom rung and then cut to throwing their leg up onto the roof. Unless there is important dialogue or something happens on the way up there's no need to show them climbing. The audience processes the cause (place foot on rung) and effect (appear on roof) and can connect what happened in the middle.

Same goes for plot. And you can play with that even more. When you show the effect (assuming it's interesting - say a bloody corpse) and withhold the cause curiosity goes into overdrive. Is it an accident? Murder? Was it one of the onlookers? etc. You can also play with it by showing cause and effect and use their assumption of what happened in the middle to misdirect their expectations. In the above scene if someone is being taken away in cuffs, the audience assumes that a) it's connected and b) must be guilty. Neither has to turn out to be true. That's far more effective than the old red herring and doesn't leave the audience feeling like chumps because you used their own prejudices and assumptions to misdirect them rather than a cheap trick.

Getting back to your film specifically, the guy is not quite right from the start. You're not hiding that he's nuts so hide what specific kind of nuts he is. Without the messaging scene you handle this very well (even if it's not intentional). The tension comes from suspecting she has walked into a trap and the delay in that trap closing. Everything you dislike about this effort are probably the very things I like so learn to see what's working, not just the execution of your intention. The magic is often found in the process.

Your actors are completely right for this piece. Their acting is amazing for first timers, they are clearly having a lot of fun and this communicates to the audience. They are comfortable in front of camera (rare for a beginner or even an amateur) and the slight ham quality to their acting sets the tone that gives this piece it's charm. The story is a bit silly and if taken too seriously wouldn't have worked. All the pieces came together here to provide an intangible something that works. That's why 80s horror works, because it is fun to watch. It takes itself seriously but doesn't forget to have fun.

This is a simple idea, carried out in a fun way. A lot of technically superior videos that come up for review on here have far less going for them. Your lighting and cinematography is simple, low budget but to my eye has considered intent and does what it needs to. The acting is fun and just the right amount of over-the-top to not be farcial. You have importantly shown your friends in their best light. Never forget your job is to make them look good. Too many forget their duty to the actor. The new audio is excellent. The gore fx are as good as anything I've seen. The pacing is spot on, you neither rush or drag to get to the punchline. The final facebook scene serves to release the climax. This is really good and you need to let yourself see that. It's important to be able to see what's working as well as what isn't otherwise you are limited to a reductionist approach. Not wanting to put too much pressure on for the next one but there is either a perfect storm of happy accidents going on here or you've got some talent. As a teacher you should know how go about shaping it. Stick at it and good luck.