most basic of sound questions

R

roo

Member
Hello all,
I have used a DVX in the past just for basic footage.
No sound was needed. It takes nice pictures.
The few times I've recorded sound with it off the built in mic
it was crummy.

A friend is getting married and could not afford to get a video.
So I have volunteered to shoot something for them.
I have a DVX camera with a rode NYG -2 (on a shcok mount)
to use.
I did a run through at the dress rehersal in the church and
though the meter on the LCD showed sound coming in and
I could hear sound on the headphones when I ran the tape
on a monitor there was next to no sound.
So...I'm guessing I set up the mic incorrectly.
I will run over the manual and push all the buttons today
(but if anyone has a quick 1-2-3 answer on what to do
I'd appreciate it) The wedding is tomorrow and I really do
not want to give this couple a silent movie w/ subtitles.

Also, I was told the shotgun would be sufficent to pick up
the Bride and Groom clearly. I am proabably goin to be about
15ft away from them.
I might be able to rent either a Sennheiser EW-100/62 wireless Lav or a Lectrosonic UW-200 lav at my local video co-op (if they have any left this weekend)
I originally thought the wireless lav might be too complex.
I really wanted to keep this simple since (obviously) I'm not
a pro at this. Just wanted nice picture and nice sound.
Reading this it appears I may be able to use both,
is that so? Can I set up the wireless Lav on one input and the
shot gun on another and both will record simultaniously on the
tape?
I'm pretty hesitant to try this since I couldn't swing getting
sound off of one basic mic.
Any suggestion or help would be mighty appreciated!
 
You can record the gun to one channel and the wireless to the other but in post choose one or the other, don't try to mix them. There will be a distinct arrival time difference on the two mics that can lead to strange interactions when mixed.

15 feet way is definitely way too far for good sound pickup, even by a shotgun. A gun mic is NOT "a telephoto lens for sound" - it DOES NOT magnify distance sounds. All it does is reject unwanted sounds arriving from directions other than where the mic is pointed. To get good, clear pickup of normal speech, such as the wedding vows, the mic ideally should be no more than 2 to 3 feet from the people speaking and aimed right at their mouths.
 
Thanks Steve. I cannot get/rent a wireless Lav this weekend, so I will have to go with the shotgun and will try to set up the camera as close as possible to the couple. I appreciate your input.
 
Is there a lectern, or any stationary object, near where the couple and the minister will be standing? If so, I'd get a long XLR cable and try to mount your shotgun on it. You really need to try to get the shotty as close as possible to them to get any kind of usable sound. Preferably pointed down at them and slightly in front of them.

This probably isn't workable, but I just thought I'd throw it out there. Also, don't cover up any of the holes on the sides of your mic if you try to tape it up somewhere.
 
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The pots on your DVX need to be set so that when someone is speaking your peak levels will read two or three bars in the red - that's -6 to -8db. If you go ahead and plug your mic into input 2, you can record input 2 to both channel 1 and channel 2. Then you can set both channel 1 and 2's levels independently of each other...try the above and then set the other channel a click lower. That way if one channel doesn't work out, you can use the other one.

Also, turn on the ALC (limiter) in the recording set up menu to catch any peaks, although it doesn't sound like you would need them in this situation unless the groom SCREAMS - I did when I got to the "I do" part.
 
Consider running down to your neighborhood Sam Ash store (if you have one) and purchasing either a Zoom H2 or H4. Position it as close to the wedding party as you possibly can -- hang it around the Padre's neck if they'll let you. An H2 sells for $199 and might just save the day.

A year ago -- almost to the day -- I shot an outdoor wedding (my son's) with my DVX100a. I was still recovering from a very serious illness, so I didn't take it on as a full-blown project. I just wanted to record the event for posterity.

I used the built-in mics, from about 15 feet away. I knew that wouldn't be good (it wasn't), so I also positioned my Zoom H4 (with its built-in mics) as close as I could get it, which was still about 8 feet away. The sound wasn't great, but it was usable.

Good luck!
 
Thanks much for the responses Bmowell and David. I will have to make due with getting as close as possible to the birde and groom. I did get a small
Olympus digital recorder (VN-3100PC) just out of fear and desperation.
I will ask the groom to put it in his pocket. It has a omnidirectional tie clip Mic
so....hopefully, there will be some coverage of the vows.
I'm assumong I should record in 12 bit so a second track can be added
later if need be.
The church does have a sound system.
The sound doesn't have to be super quality, but It needs to be clear
enough to hear.

The sound guys at B&H all thought a shotgun would be ok. They suggested
running it on Phantom power. Which leads this newbie who has gotten
in way over thier head to ask...How do you set up phantom power?
Also, if I set up the camera with the settings I want the night before
and then turn off the power, when the power is turned back on the
next day will the settings be where I left them or defaulted back to
factory pre sets?
 
roo said:
Also, I was told the shotgun would be sufficent to pick up
the Bride and Groom clearly. I am proabably goin to be about
15ft away from them.
Click to expand...

You were told wrong. Never listen to that person's sound advice again.

Even getting a really cheap Radio Shack type plant mic somewhere near the procedings is going to be a 300% improvment over anything on camera. If you have to run a cable out to you then you do what you gotta do. If you dress it up and hide it then it shouldn't be a problem for couple.

Don't record at 12 bits, you can add whatever you want and mix it together in post. Be aware that you will have major sync issues running a 2nd recorder for extended periods. These can be tweaked in editing but it tends to be a HUGE headache.

Phantom switches can be found under the LCD screen, be sure you are on mic level.

Cheers
 
roo said:
...I'm assumong I should record in 12 bit so a second track can be added
later if need be.
...
The sound doesn't have to be super quality, but It needs to be clear
enough to hear.

The sound guys at B&H all thought a shotgun would be ok. They suggested
running it on Phantom power. Which leads this newbie who has gotten
in way over thier head to ask...How do you set up phantom power?...
Click to expand...

This shooting "12bit to allow more sound to be dubbed later" is something no one I know of EVER uses. You don't dub music or narration to the camera original tape - that tape is only raw material. After the shoot you load the tape into your editing software on your computer and edit the sound track there along with the video edit, adding whatever tracks you want in the process and then rendering it to DVD or whatever delivery medium your project calls for.

Phantom power provides power the microphone needs to operate - it's not a performance option like turning up the video sensitivity in low light or something like that. Your shotgun or other mics either need phantom or they have an internal battery for power. If they require phantom they simply won't work at all without it. If they have an internal battery, turning on phantom as well won't do anything. (Some mics operate with either an internal battery or external phantom and some of them do have slightly better specs with phantom power than with their battery but we're not talking about a difference that would be noticable in your scenario.)
 
wabbit said:
You were told wrong. Never listen to that person's sound advice again.

Even getting a really cheap Radio Shack type plant mic somewhere near the procedings is going to be a 300% improvment over anything on camera. If you have to run a cable out to you then you do what you gotta do. If you dress it up and hide it then it shouldn't be a problem for couple.

Don't record at 12 bits, you can add whatever you want and mix it together in post. Be aware that you will have major sync issues running a 2nd recorder for extended periods. These can be tweaked in editing but it tends to be a HUGE headache.

Phantom switches can be found under the LCD screen, be sure you are on mic level.

Cheers
Click to expand...

Wabbit, could you tell us a bit more about your experience with synching issues? I was considering getting a portable recorder since my Canon HV20 has a terrible preamp. I was also considering something like juicedlink or beachtek, but figured since I could only afford one or the other, the recorder had more benefits.
I'm assuming you're saying if I left my recorder and camera on for say an hour, they would fall out of synch even if I slated it at the beginning?
 
obi1jacobi said:
Wabbit, could you tell us a bit more about your experience with synching issues? I was considering getting a portable recorder since my Canon HV20 has a terrible preamp. I was also considering something like juicedlink or beachtek, but figured since I could only afford one or the other, the recorder had more benefits.
I'm assuming you're saying if I left my recorder and camera on for say an hour, they would fall out of synch even if I slated it at the beginning?
Click to expand...

Jumping in - it's very likely that you'd find them a frame or so out by the end of 10 to 15 minutes or so and getting worse the longer the shot lasts. In order to ensure they stay in sync, the sample rate clocks in the recorder and the camera must run at exactly the same rate. Given the looser tolerances of consumer gear this is rarely the case unless special means are taken.
 
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What Steve said.

But I wanted to redact the "HUGE headache" for fixing something like vows for a wedding. It would be more like a minor throbbing in the back of the head. I would imagine you might have to make half a dozen edits to cover the vows depending on the length of the ceremony.

For more complex productions the throbbing turns into a migraine.

Cheers
 
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