Moonlight disappears when lightsource goes on

J

Jerryv

Active member
Hello everyone,

I have one little quistion.. I know how to fake moonlight light, but i have problem:

There is a bedroom only illuminated by "moonlight" (1000 watt lamp)
Then the phone goes off and the woman in bed turns on the small night-lamp - - wich is now the main light sourche -

The problem is that i need a powerfull light to suggest moonlight (i need light to shoot) and that the small practical light must look like a far more powerfull lightsource (but is not!). Moonlight in a room 'disappears' when there is a other lightsourche on.

But how can i achief this?
 
Do you actually want to turn off the 1000W light? I assume so.

A double-pole, double-throw switch is what you need if you want to turn off one light while simultaneously turning on another. But you'll have trouble finding one that could handle the 1000W.

So.

Get two regular light switches, wire them to the two light sources, put them side-by side...but have one "backwards" so it's off when the other is on.

Flip them both at the same time, either with coordinated fingers...or tape a pencil to flippy part.
 
In reality, the "moonlight" gag shouldn't need to be killed when your practical comes up. You have a classic, two illumination level situation.

What you really need to do is use the practical as a motivation, not the only light source. Look at how the practical casts light and shadow in the scene and emulate that with a larger instrument to get the higher (and warmer) illumination level of the second half of your scene.

Here is a link to something that I just shot that has a similar two condition illumination requirement.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=76459&page=267
 
That lag - especially in television shows - has always bugged me! Why not have your moonlight up, setting the camera aperture to the practicals level. It'll be dark when you turn the practical source off, but there won't be the telltale lag when the electricial throws the moonlit preset on.

You could do it with an x-y preset fader board too, but you'll still get that lag or a hard switch if you don't feather the transition enough.

e
 
overlandfilms said:
It'll be dark when you turn the practical source off
Click to expand...

How can that be? The practical sourche is not as powerfull as the moonlight source. Its like turning a flashlight on in the middle of the day: it looks weak.
But if you turn the flashlight on at night: it looks powerfull.

So i have a relative bright illuminated room and a practical lamp: i want to achief the look that the practical lamp is very bright (because its plays at night).
But because i also simulate moonlight: you get the same effect as turning a flashlight on in the middle of the day: it looks very weak.

How can i deal with this?
 
khmuse said:
Look at how the practical casts light and shadow in the scene and emulate that with a larger instrument
Click to expand...

Without replacing the practical? how, just set a big light behind the practical?
(that is casing shadows from the practical on the scene).
 
GenJerDan, the shoot is... tomorrow (in about 2 hours i go to bed...) so this is not a option anymore. But your saying that the best way is to turn of the "moonlight" light when switching on the other light?


 
khmuse said:
In reality, the "moonlight" gag shouldn't need to be killed when your practical comes up. You have a classic, two illumination level situation.

What you really need to do is use the practical as a motivation, not the only light source. Look at how the practical casts light and shadow in the scene and emulate that with a larger instrument to get the higher (and warmer) illumination level of the second half of your scene.

Here is a link to something that I just shot that has a similar two condition illumination requirement.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=76459&page=267
Click to expand...

100 % Agreed
 
Jerryv said:
Without replacing the practical? how, just set a big light behind the practical?
(that is casing shadows from the practical on the scene).
Click to expand...

You can "try" to use the practical fixture as your source (replacing with a large source such as a ECA or ECT) but using another off camera source is the correct approach. You may find that you will need a few sources to "sell" the look of your lights on situation. One would be a source overhead that spills light in a manner very similar to the practical (just don't let it spill on to the outside of the practical or you will destroy the gag). The other would be a few lower output soft sources to bring up the entire room to a level that works for the tone of your scene.

Using the practical as a motivation for your real sources is the standard approach. Just set your night level to about 1 1/2 stops below (and much cooler - HMI or CTB on tungsten) your light on level. This way you only have to bring up the lights on gag and you have a very realistic transition between the two conditions.
 
Yeah, but if the shoot is tomorrow...

Well, you're pretty much screwed.

Bring the moonlight light down to the same-ish level as the practical. Otherwise you're gonna be tearing your hair out trying to get the exposure decent enough to look right with both sources.

In the "real world" the moon doesn't turn off when you turn on the table lamp. It just becomes less noticeable. :) Even with a 250W in the practical lamp, it may not be enough.

Actually, it may be too much. I had a devil of a time getign a table lamp not to blow out when shooting a while back ( http://www.changedcrocodile.com/Films/SleepTight/NoFilm2.wmv Don't watch all of it...you've been warned)

I ended up putting a 20W bulb in the table lamp, wrapping the inside of the shade with neutral density filters...I'm lying...I didn't have any ND filters...I used car window tint sheets...and then using a worklight for the actual illumination of the scene, along with some daylight fluorescents outside the window with the scene balanced for tungsten so the "moonlight" would be bluish.
 
I didn't mean that one practical source was the only source of illumination in the scene. You might have a full grid of lights to build your values for that certain look.

What I meant was that when you killed the practical (and any studio fixtures backing it up) the moonlight look should already be fired-up. You won't read the moonlight because, in many areas of the frame (e.g., ambient versus direct moonlight through a window which would be harsher / brighter) the moonlight won't compete with the practical (and associated source fixtures) - just as it wouldn't compete in real life.

So, as an example in a small room you've got your lamp or lamps with 150w globes (or whatever you're using) and less than 1k of china ball or fresnel with silks, flags or softboxes to bump the level (get a good ratio that looks right). Also burning concurrently is your moonlight - a couple of full-blued 500w lekos with a softened venetian gobo and a 300w fresnel at 1/2 CTB with a silk for fill.

Don't be afraid to let it go dark - you're suggesting that it is night.

e
 
Last edited:
Okey, thanks for all the reactions.
Its now early in the morning and iam going off to shoot it.

I must say that i only have 3 lights (and i can replace the bulb to 1000, 500, 300 watt on all of those lights).

So i dont have softboxes, swictes, freshnels etc...
I will be tough, but i try.

Thanks for the many, and good, replies!

Jerry
 
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