Mono vs. Stereo

MattC

Veteran
Mono vs. Stereo

There seems to be some confusion regarding mono and stereo as it relates to what we record and mix for our film projects. I started to respond to this in the thread in which the questions originally came up but then thought it might make more sense to make this a separate post.

How to begin, well the first thing we need to understand what stereo is. Stereo isn’t so much a reality as it is a perception. Sounds, natural ones at least, are not stereo, they are monaural, but we perceive them in stereo. (We actually perceive well beyond “stereo” but I’m not going to get into surround mixing in this post, so for the purpose of this discussion lets assume that “stereo” is as good as it gets.) For example. Let’s say that I stand directly in front of you and clap my hands. The sound waves from the clap reaches each of your ears in the same manner at the same time so you perceive the sound as coming from directly in front of you. If I moved to your right and clapped the sound waves would reach each of your ears at a different time and with a different quality. These differences allow you to tell from where the sound is coming from, they allow you to “place” the sound in the stereo field in front of you. The differences you perceive (because you have to very hi-quality microphones attached to each side of your head) allow you to hear in stereo, but the clap itself is monaural.

So let’s take this a step further. Walk out your door, and stand with your arms out by your sides and sweep them in front of you. This is your “stereo field”. Now, close your eyes and listen (people just don’t listen enough). You’re going to hear lots of stuff. A bird off to your right, a car driving by from right to left, a car honking on the left. Maybe a conversation taking place a ways away from you to the left but just off center – you get the idea. These are ALL monaural sounds, each of which you perceive in stereo. Based on the relationship of the sound to your ears.

But we record in stereo, right? I mean my cd’s are all in stereo and movies are stereo, so don’t we record in stereo? Not too often, no. We record in stereo either because we need to capture a sound in it’s natural state (ambiance), because it is impractical to record it any other way, or both. An orchestra is a good example of this. It would be impractical to record each instrument separately and, because of how the music is played (very large group led by a conductor and the requirement to hear each other in order to blend with your section) makes this impractical. It is also undesirable, since the sound of one of the most important instruments, the concert hall itself, would be missing. So we set up two mikes, to imitate how we hear, and we record the whole performance at once. Since the microphones are mimicking our ears the two recordings (recorded at the same time, each to its own stereo “channel”) when played together allow us to perceive the same stereo effect we would have perceived had we been standing in the hall at the time of the recording.

This is different from how most rock bands or pop groups are recorded (unless the are recorded live). In this setting we would record each instrument individually usually in mono. One possible exception to this is drums were they might be recorded as a set in stereo, although more than likely they will mike each drum serperatley and then mix the set together. So no we have a whole band recorded (drums, bass, guitars, piano, vocalist) and each track is mono. How do we get stereo? Well the sound engineer gives it to us and he uses two main tools to do this: panning and reverb. Panning allows us to move a sound from one speaker to the other. If we pan hard left, the sound will only come out of the left speaker and it will sound as if it is coming from our left, panning hard right will achieve the opposite result. If we pan at say, 45 degrees to the left, the sound will be mostly coming from the left but some sound will also be coming from the right hand speaker. When we pan we think in degrees relative to our position. So, if I pan a sound to left 45 is will sound as if it is coming from a spot 45 degrees to my left. If we pan a sound to 0, or center, it will sound as if the sound is directly in front of us, even if the speakers are spaced far apart. The sound engineer “places” the sound in the stereo filed by panning it left and right so that it matches what the audience should be experiencing. The only exceptions to this are dialog, which is almost always panned center, and foley pertaining to the character who is speaking (it would be very odd to hear the characters voice coming from the center of the stereo field as his footsteps moved from right to left). So panning gives us direction and reverb gives us distance. When we combine the two we can place a sound anywhere in the stereo field.

So why do we do this? Why is it good to deal with lots of small mono recordings instead of larger stereo recordings? Well it gives us much more control over the mix. Ideally every sound should occupy its own space in the mix. This doesn’t always work in the purest sense, but that’s what we shoot for, every sound in its place and this includes position and/or frequency if possible. For example a bass drum and a bass are often both panned center, but then they get muddied so we cut or boost frequencies from each so that they both “sit in the mix”. This principal applies to all sound design, whether music or picture. The resulting mix, even though it is comprised of all mono source recording, is stereo.

How do our camcorders record? Well it depends on the mic and each cameras recording potential, but if we are using a mono mic, we are recording mono. If we use a mono mic and we record the signal to two channels, we don’t have stereo, we simply have the same mono signal on two signals, which when played through two stereo speakers will make the sound appear to come from directly in front of us. This is fine for dialog. If you find that your dialog has been recorded to only one channel of a stereo pair, you can simple copy the waveform into the other channel. In an audio app, you would simply pan the signal to the center.

Sometimes we will record ambient sound in stereo, but often that gets recorded as mono as well. We use that sound as a canvass and paint in the additional colors of sound throughout the stereo field. There are also ways to fake a stereo signal from a mono signal, to make it wider and provide more space for other sounds to sit in the mix, but that’s a post unto itself.

Hope this has helped.

Matt
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

As a working eng soundmixer I try to fit in a independent movie or 2 each yer for fun. I have been approach numerous times about recording in stereo, "Do you have stereo mics? I want to have a 5.1/stereo/etc soundtrack"

Basically I have to go thru the same lengthy explaination you just did everytime. Problem is I don't think they believe me. They know stereo mics exist so I must just be using some cheaper mono shotguns and inventing my explaination.

I remember reading a post from someone who was ready to shell out the bucks for a 416 stereo mic to get stereo dialog on his picture.

I think I will print out your post and just hand it to these first time producers.
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

Great explanation. Clear and easy to read.

Good job.
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

Phil Spector was right.

Or maybe Conny Planck is right with the Kunstkopf.

At any rate, two mics separated by some distance is just faking it ahead of post.

:)

Dan
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

Yea thanks for that post Matt. That is going to help me out with making music with Soundtrack.

I do have a question though. When I record audio onto say channel 1 on the DVX100 and nothing on channel 2. When played back, I am only going to have audio coming from 1 speaker correct? Is this good or bad or does it matter? Lately I have had both switches slid down to channel 2 on the camera which I would have audio coming out of both speakers.
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

[quote author=wabbit link=board=audio;num=1102035718;start=0#2 date=12/27/04 at 20:44:06]As a working eng soundmixer I try to fit in a independent movie or 2 each yer for fun. I have been approach numerous times about recording in stereo, "Do you have stereo mics? I want to have a 5.1/stereo/etc soundtrack"


[/quote]


I love it when I get customers that call me and want to "mount a surround mic on a boompole", or "mount a surround mic on the camera" for their shoots. The best line I got was, "we are doing a 'groundbreaking' film, and want to put a surround mic on the camera". I still haven't stopped laughing from that one. Groundbreaking? I politely told them there was nothing groundbreaking about that, and if it were a good idea, everyone would be doing it.

General rule of thumb: surround recording is crap. There is no need for it. Go talk to any re-recording mixer. They want mono dialogue, mono hard FX, stereo bg's, mono foley. Then they can pan the sound where they want it. If you start recording everything in surround, then they are going to have a hell of a time with perspective, and keeping everything correct.


Sorry bout the rant.

Good post matt.

-Dave
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

Sorry. BG's is short for backgrounds. When dealing with post production sound, you have several main elements: FX, Dialogue, Backgrounds, Foley, and music. I like to record backgrounds for each project I do. I record them in stereo, and not surround, for the reasons I listed above.

-Dave
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

Nice postings... sound is one excellent way to improve you movie...so don't tell anyone! ;)

Stereo recording is also tricky because sometimes it's prone to phase cancellation. This simply means that two similair sound waves ( like waves of water) can hit each other and this results in the wave being nullified, it's like adding 2 + -2. Modern day aircraft use this principle to quiet the engine noise. It use to be that jets flying overhead were really loud like most present day military aircraft. Well the engineers figured out how to take the sound waves off the engine and turn it back on itself using perfect timing (phase) so that many sound waves were simply zeroed out. Most often, we don't want to do this in our mixing.
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

Thanks for the nice words guys, I returned from holiday last night and was surprised to find that this thread had any activity!

Gabe, yes BG would be ambiance like crowd activity or a band playing or even a busy street corner.  However, and Dave please correct me if I'm wrong, room tone would usually be recorded mono with your dialog mike (so that you could cut it into and around dialog if need be which is also mono - at least that's how I've done it).  

So, for example,  you might want a crowded bar scene where your two main characters are having a dialog and your shooting them with reverse angles.  You might not be able to get clean dialog with the crowd actually talking in the background and the juke box playing.  So, you could shoot the scene with only the dialog and the other actors (who are only minimally present in the background due to the shot angles) would be "talking" and "laughing" without actually making any sound.  Now you have a clean dialog track.  Now do the scene again without the dialog and record the background of people "wallaing" or pretending to have conversations that you cant really make out - record this in stereo.  It might not seem like it will work, but it will.  Now you have complete control over how you mix the dialog with the crowd and you can boost or cut frequencies if need be to have the dialog really stand out, even in a "loud" bar.  Use a music track to simulate the band or the jukebox, you might want this to be mono as well so that you can place it in the stereo field so that the music is coming from where the juke box is.  Then add some foley, maybe some clothes rustling, shoe steps, pool balls being hit, a cash register, some glasses clinking - all in mono so that again you can place the sounds where you want them and tweak them individually.  

Hope that made sense.  By the way, if you can't record a BG stereo (like the bar scene in my example) don't sweat it.  You could get away with doing it mono and, if you took some time, there are techniques (at least one of which is outlined in one of Roses books, sorry I can't remember which one at the moment) for faking a stereo signal from a mono source.

Best of luck to you.

Matt
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

Also check out some sound libraries - I think Sony just released a killer one. You can get not only great foley, but some killer backgrounds as well, all ready for your use.

Matt
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

You could technically call crowd noise bg's, but it's often referred to as "walla". Walla is any crowd or people noise where there are many people are talking, but there are no discernable words or phrases...therefore it kinda sounds like "walla walla walla"...hence the name.

Backgrounds are usually referred to as room tone, things in the room, like a fan, or buzzy light. If your working on a desert scene, then you might have wind, maybe some insect sounds in your bg's. Basically anything that is "in the background" will be a bg.

-Dave
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

Thanks Matt.
Finally some appreciation for the beauty of mono.
I'm a one-eared guy,---still trying to get my head around the stereo concept.
Testing cutting-edge hearing device that mimics two ears by transfering sound from deaf side aid to hearing side.
But it's more of a social or business aid.
When editing sound I take them off. No need.
Hearing's OK in good ear. Hearing in mono's all I need in most cases.
Thanks for the affirmation.
Anybody wanna buy half of my MDR-7506 headphones.
Ah,---half price?...
I hear yah!
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

Due to this new found love of mono i will make my $100 wireless multichannel mic system that goes for more than a mile in distance in mono... stay stuned in

I will make a mic system that will go more than a mile multi channel for under $100 us, I have been lookin n lookin prices are ridiculous, I'd rather buy something that plugs in and works but i have no choice with a $300-$600 min spending? wtf? honestly a lot of stuff is overpriced and it is because of all of you, you buy into the hoopla buying up these mics and systems, kinda weird the camcorders are more affordable then the accecories...

ex. still a lil rip off but you get a lot,

dvx =
3 1/3 ccd decent lens value= $800-$1200
Xlr x 2 phantom power value= $150-$300
built in mic $75-$150
minidv vtr $500-$800
integration circuit to make everything communicate $150-$300
Research and Developement (R&D) a lot lol

cost/value is pretty good

wireless mic system $500 crappy lav to replace? something fishy

HTTP://LEBROZ.COM LEBROZ JAMES TAKING OVER HTTP://LEBROZ.COM
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

[quote author=Dave_Fisk link=board=audio;num=1102035718;start=0#6 date=12/30/04 at 15:29:24]
I love it when I get customers that call me and want to "mount a surround mic on a boompole", or "mount a surround mic on the camera" for their shoots. The best line I got was, "we are doing a 'groundbreaking' film, and want to put a surround mic on the camera". I still haven't stopped laughing from that one. Groundbreaking? I politely told them there was nothing groundbreaking about that, and if it were a good idea, everyone would be doing it.

General rule of thumb: surround recording is crap. There is no need for it. Go talk to any re-recording mixer. They want mono dialogue, mono hard FX, stereo bg's, mono foley. Then they can pan the sound where they want it. If you start recording everything in surround, then they are going to have a hell of a time with perspective, and keeping everything correct.


Sorry bout the rant.

Good post matt.

-Dave


[/quote]

Excellent thread Mat, great posts wabbit and Dave F. I now have a much better understanding of how to get the sound for my film. This forum is just such a great resource for budding film makers like me, and I'm really applicative of the fact that pros like you guys take the time to work with those of us trying to learn the craft.

I will have two DVX's to work with. I already have an AT897 with a Lightwave windscreen and a pretty good GITZO boompole with a K-TEC K-SM mic holder, and I'm in the process of getting three mics right now, probably the MC012, with the Sound Room supplied windscreen and the SSM-1 shock mount and a pair of Wireless EW112-G2's. I can afford perhaps one more mic if needed, and I'm wondering if there is a reasonable stereo mic (Around $500) to add to my arsenal of equipment. Are the mics I'm getting enough for the movie, or would a stereo mic for background be necessary/very desirable? I just looked up stereo mics and found three, Rode NT4, and the AT822 and the AT825. Are these good choices, and which one do you guys think is the best of the three, or is there something else in the $500 range that is better for my purposes?

My next question is what is the best combination for getting a good mix of sound for outside dialog, and scenes inside in a lab, a house and in a topless club using two cameras? When the dialog is between just two characters I plan on using the wireless mics, but when it is more of a group conversation I plan on using a mix of the wireless for the main speakers, as well as the AT897 boom mic or the MC012 for the rest. Is this a practical approach, or is there another way to get this mix of sounds that is better? (Hopefully this question isn't too nebulas.)

My next question is what is the best length for a boompole for the DVX? I have a six-foot now and plan on getting another pole with the new mic. All of my shots will be with the standard Leica lens on the cameras, as what I've read on wide angle and telephoto adaptors leads me to believe that they are hard to work with on this camera. Besides I think I can shoot this first film with this lens as is, and learn a lot in the process. So there won't be much need for telephoto shots at a distance, and what I do plan for distance scenes will be between just the two main characters, so I can use the wireless mics for that.  

Again, thank you guys for sharing your expertise with us newbies to the biz.

David
 
Re: Mono vs. Stereo

great post matt.

a customer almost left my editing room lately when he saw i recorded all IVs in mono into my NLE. he thought i am a moron or my NLE sucks. after i had the final mix done (music, ambience, IVs etc) he was pleased though ::)
 
Back
Top