Mono vs Stereo mics

ROCKMORE

ROCKMORE

Veteran
I'm using a 2 channel Jucedlink mixer with a variety of wired shotguns, lavs and dynamic mics depending on the situation. Of course they are all mono XLR dedicated left and right channel inputs. I got a complaint from an editor, why there was only one channel recorded. I said all my mics are pretty good quality mono with balanced XLR cables, not mini stereo jacks, so just fill the empty channel. I'm not an audio pro, just following the rules I have read here so what advice can I give them from real audio pros? Thanks in advance.
 
Many video editing programs (actually most) don't handle audio well and often keep Tk1 as left and Tk2 as right with no ability to pan the signals.

So you can go from either of 2 directions with the editors problem....... Either record every thing as 2 channel 'dual mono' with a splitter cable (which can be problematic with phantom powered mics). And how do you deal with a 2 mic setup like 2 lav mics..... or a shotgun mic on one track and a lav on the other? How are you going to handle 'true stereo'?

The ideal way is to post produce the audio in an audio program after the video editing has taken place, so you can adjust and pan / Eq / compress the audio tracks to give a good audio mix.

If audio post is the way to go then a single channel mic is NOT a problem.
 
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OzGizmo said:
Many video editing programs (actually most) don't handle audio well and often keep Tk1 as left and Tk2 as right with no ability to pan the signals.

So you can go from either of 2 directions with the editors problem....... Either record every thing as 2 channel 'dual mono' with a splitter cable (which can be problematic with phantom powered mics). And how do you deal with a 2 mic setup like 2 lav mics..... or a shotgun mic on one track and a lav on the other? How are you going to handle 'true stereo'?

The ideal way is to post produce the audio in an audio program after the video editing has taken place, so you can adjust and pan / Eq / compress the audio tracks to give a good audio mix.

If audio post is the way to go then a single channel mic is NOT a problem.
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I'm also an editor and when recording with a single mono mic to a single channel I just fill the left or right on the timeline, click, done.

I would never want to ask for additional trouble by splitting the signal on set and yes powering the mics and the mixer is another issue all together.

When I said to the editor, "Just fill the empty audio track", the editors answer was, "Well that's more work for me". I was a bit speechless and had no answer, except possibly, "You better just quit then."

If it really had to be true stereo I would probably set up 2 identical mics which I have in the proper places in relation to my audio signal, but honestly for an interview recording I don't think anyone will hear the difference on Youtube.

In this case the set is a race track with a lot of noise everywhere which is why I use handheld dynamic mics 4 to 5 inches from the audio source to limit background noise.
 
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I always record mono to twin tracks L+R so that the edit is made easier, I can then control what is going thru the audio path to transmission as any stereo content is also recorded in the same format.

For info like you I have numerous mono mics for location recording but only one stereo mic which I tend to be used with a separate recorder for getting stereo atmos and sound effects for adding in post.

If I have to split channel record I always still deliver a L+R mono or stereo mix depending on the content.
 
ROCKMORE said:
When I said to the editor, "Just fill the empty audio track", the editors answer was, "Well that's more work for me". I was a bit speechless and had no answer, except possibly, "You better just quit then."
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What!

It's a 10-second job to copy/paste a sound-file.

Also, some editing software has tick-boxes to route a mono file to both channels.

It's actually the Editor's job to do this, not the sound recordist's.

Maybe he needs to go back for further training if he is so incompetent. :happy:
 
Well it all depends on the project as a drama with 2000+ edits could be a real pain to fill in every second track with some as small as 1 sec long but a decent editor should be able to do this as they go along or just monitor the single track to both speakers.

Flipping it the other way I have done dramas where the audio has been provided via OMF in dual mono or twin track and have deleted one of the tracks as I would be treating it as mono and would not wish to have both up for phasing issues.

A great deal of material could be recorded on location with radio mics or lavs on track one and boom on track two but a decent edit set-up should have the ability to monitor each source but it is always good to keep them all there if the final tracks are too be dubbed.

If the editor is doing the final mix and finishing which sadly is the case most of the time these days then I would give them dual mono or twin track as originally stated but John does have a point that if they are complaining then they should be responsible for ensuring continuity of audio for TX.
 
It casts doubt on the competence or motivation of the editor. I would look for a different editor next time.
But in any case, workflow and format issues like this should be worked out in advance of principal shooting.

Back in the days of analog tape, we would duplicate the same track on both "Left" and "Right" as a natural redundant "backup".
But in the days of digital recording (on whatever media) there is no practical reason for such procedure.

A dialog track should be a single-channel anyway. And it should be panned into proper position.
IMHO, it should NEVER be two identical tracks handled as "stereo". That is just asking for trouble.

If one wanted to take full advantage of the two available tracks, then record the secondary/backup track at 6dB or 9dB down as a "safety" against clipping.
 
Actually, many smart sound recordists will use the splitter to put the XLR signal into both channels on the recorder, but they will set the record level for one channel lower than the other. This way if any sudden sound or loud dialogue clips on the master channel, the padded channel's track can be used for that bit.

This would probably drive your editor crazy. :-)
 
BTW, if he'd said "More work for me" to ME, I'd have said, "Yeah....that's your JOB. To EDIT. Did you not understand that?"

Wonder if it also upsets him that you didn't shoot everything in the exact order that the cuts should be placed? Gee....."more work for me!"
 
In 2000 I could do this in Final Cut Pro in seconds. Double-click the audio track to open it. Move the "pan" slider from left to center. Done. You can do this once on the entire media file, before editing. You shouldn't have to do it to each clip in the timeline.

As has been said, change the pan instead of duplicating the track.

As has also been said, I hope you aren't paying this editor much, and I hope there is another editor you can get next time.
 
I actually don't think it casts doubt, I think it's clear that he doesn't know what he is doing.

I would like to correct something that was said though. I don't know of any professional or semi professional NLE that does not have pan controls. AVID, FCP, and Premiere all do.

If your run and gun then maybe splitting make it a bit faster in a short turnaround edit? But if you are going to sound post we HATE duplicated tracks. You just never know what it is. Is it a split mono? or two separate mics?, a safety track???

So we have to listen to them all, or run a phase analysis on them to find out. That does take time that is not editing, it's cleaning up sloppy work from the picture editor.

I've even gotten split tracks that were made by a miswired splitter that threw the tracks 180 out of phase. Use that and your production disappears when they play it in mono.
 
John Willett said:
What!

It's a 10-second job to copy/paste a sound-file.

Also, some editing software has tick-boxes to route a mono file to both channels.

It's actually the Editor's job to do this, not the sound recordist's.

Maybe he needs to go back for further training if he is so incompetent. :happy:
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What?, was exactly what went through my mind. I almost had to laugh. I guess they also didn't like the fact that I shot all the interviews with 2 cameras and slated every shot. I did keep the editor in mind though by slating each interview once and not stopping the cameras so they only had to sync once.
In Premiere I just drag fill left or right to the audio track on the timeline so since I record all the audio to the same side they could theoretically do all the tracks with one click.
 
This is an issue? Really? I've never heard of this being an issue. Dialogue tracks are always in mono on every professional shoot. You get a mono track and then iso tracks. If it's on camera you'll get audio one one channel, and maybe you'll get it on both with one a little lower in level than the other as a safety track, but that's it.

Do NOT use a splitter cable on a mic into two xlr inputs. You can run into issues. Use something passive like a Beachtek box.

I'm still trying to figure out why this is a thing....When I cut dialogue I never had dual mono tracks...ever...
 
David W. Richardson said:
Where did you find this editor?

What is his editing experience?
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The people who I shoot for, hired a local TV network team to handle post. Maybe they are used to material shot with an on camera stereo mic or something like that. Not my problem, up to them to figure it out.

The reason I posted this thread is because I never heard a question like that before, and since things are changing every day now with technology, maybe I was missing something in the new world of digital audio production. I think I just found a misinformed editor.

It's important to keep peace with people I work with and I will continue to shoot this ongoing project. I suggested if they need a stereo mic or special equipment maybe they can supply it. Never gonna happen.
 
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