MKH-60 or NTG3 (is there any comparison?)

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olindacat

Well-known member
Four Qs:

1. For outside dialogue w/a loud macho male voice, where I'm booming from 2'-4' away, or pointing @ talent w/pistol in a furry blimp from 10' away, in often windy situations, do these compare?
2. If I could get the MKH60 used for $900, is it worth the extra $ or is the new NTG3 a better route?
3. Which of these is best suited for natural outdoor recordings of birds that are 10' away, trinkle of water, tone, golf balls being struck, walking feet, etc?
4. Do either of these hold up in moist places?
 
Hmmm. David: I am trying to keep to to one lav, one indoor, one outdoor mic. What do people record animals with (birds and such that don't like people near them)?
 
olindacat said:
Four Qs:

1. For outside dialogue w/a loud macho male voice, where I'm booming from 2'-4' away, or pointing @ talent w/pistol in a furry blimp from 10' away, in often windy situations, do these compare?
2. If I could get the MKH60 used for $900, is it worth the extra $ or is the new NTG3 a better route?
3. Which of these is best suited for natural outdoor recordings of birds that are 10' away, trinkle of water, tone, golf balls being struck, walking feet, etc?
4. Do either of these hold up in moist places?
Click to expand...

The MKH 60 will be much better, it is a superb mic.

The NTG3 is, as far as I am aware, basically a copy of the old MKH 416 and the MKH 60 is very much better than that.

In order of quality - IMHO - best first:-
1 - Schoeps SuperCMIT
=2 - Sennheiser MKH 8060 / Schoeps CMIT
4 - MKH 60 (but very close to above)
5 - Neumann KMR 81
6 - Sennehiser MKH 416
7 - Røde NTG3
 
These rankings are always fun :) Where do you think the CS3e fits in there? If I had to vote probably above the MKH60 below the CMIT.

Interesting to see that you think the 8060 stands up to the CMIT. I'm so curious to hear it in person.

John Willett said:
The MKH 60 will be much better, it is a superb mic.

The NTG3 is, as far as I am aware, basically a copy of the old MKH 416 and the MKH 60 is very much better than that.

In order of quality - IMHO - best first:-
1 - Schoeps SuperCMIT
=2 - Sennheiser MKH 8060 / Schoeps CMIT
4 - MKH 60 (but very close to above)
5 - Neumann KMR 81
6 - Sennehiser MKH 416
7 - Røde NTG3
Click to expand...
 
dano said:
These rankings are always fun :) Where do you think the CS3e fits in there? If I had to vote probably above the MKH60 below the CMIT.

Interesting to see that you think the 8060 stands up to the CMIT. I'm so curious to hear it in person.
Click to expand...

I would probably put the Sanken around the 416 - it's let down by not being RF, but is a pretty good mic. It's difficult that one. The Sanken is electret, I think.

The 8060 and CMIT are different, which is why I put them equal. The 8060 is RF, the CMIT isn't. But the CMIT is a very nice sounding mic., better than the ancient 416. The 8060 is supposed to be very much better than the old Sennheisers - although I haven't really listened to the 8060 yet, I do have both the 8020 and 8040 in the same series.
 
I don't think the CS3e is electret, it has a three capsule design. I was under the impression that electrets were cheaper, smaller, frequently in lavs.

I bought an MKH60 first, then a CS3e, ended up selling off the MKH60 as I favored the sound, reach, and rejection of the CS3e. So far - has held up fine in humid conditions. Only knock on this IMHO has been the self noise but I've never shot an exterior that's been quiet enough to matter and have always benefited from the effective off-axis rejection it has.


John Willett said:
I would probably put the Sanken around the 416 - it's let down by not being RF, but is a pretty good mic. It's difficult that one. The Sanken is electret, I think.

The 8060 and CMIT are different, which is why I put them equal. The 8060 is RF, the CMIT isn't. But the CMIT is a very nice sounding mic., better than the ancient 416. The 8060 is supposed to be very much better than the old Sennheisers - although I haven't really listened to the 8060 yet, I do have both the 8020 and 8040 in the same series.
Click to expand...
 
Looking into the CS3e electret thing now, interesting, seeing some say it is....

dano said:
I don't think the CS3e is electret, it has a three capsule design. I was under the impression that electrets were cheaper, smaller, frequently in lavs.

I bought an MKH60 first, then a CS3e, ended up selling off the MKH60 as I favored the sound, reach, and rejection of the CS3e. So far - has held up fine in humid conditions. Only knock on this IMHO has been the self noise but I've never shot an exterior that's been quiet enough to matter and have always benefited from the effective off-axis rejection it has.
Click to expand...
 
The CS3e has been taking some hits. A wise fellow, in another close by thread, just chose a ME-66 over the CS3e. The paper specs were about equal, so why spend the extra money? Everyone should sell their Sanken mics immediately!

Grant
 
Thanks John. I sent a message off to Sanken hoping for an explanation, if they get back to me i'll post it here.

Off to go educate myself on AF and DC condensers, RF condensers and electrets...

John Willett said:
I just double-checked - it's a "DC biased condenser" which, to me, means a proper AF condenser. My mistake - I thought Sanken only did electrets.
Click to expand...
 
You do realize the continental divide is creeping in again don't you ;-) John: being that you're from Europe (I hope that is proper to say as you aren't on the continent) do you think US standards are any lower? I saw a thread about the MK21 and how it was so good in spite of its age b/c of the e. euro cold war prop machine pouring money into radio, etc. Is there any truth to all of that or myth? Also, dano raised a good point: so, in your rankings, what about poor handling technique (not that I am i any way inferring that is the case w/u dano ;-)? I am not a pro but will do 95% of my own booming so I hope to improve. Is that an important pre-purchase consideration? I am just an enthusiast, not a pro. Thanks for insights to you and dano.
 
Hello Olindacat:

I wasn't speaking about handling noise but self noiseof the mics. Each mic once amplified has more or less noise depending on make/model. The Sennheiser MKH series is known to be very quiet (very little hiss) while the CS3e because of it's multicapsule design has more hiss as you crank it up. Because of it's design the CS3e is able to reject a ton of off axis sound (from the sides and behind the mic) and in those noisy conditions the self noise/hiss isn't really an issue.

As for handling noise...a good shockmount, solid boompole, and experience will solve those issues. Some mics are
definitely more sensitive to handling noise and would have to be accounted for in selecting all of those pieces. With time and experience the handling noise won't be an issue.

Good luck!


olindacat said:
You do realize the continental divide is creeping in again don't you ;-) John: being that you're from Europe (I hope that is proper to say as you aren't on the continent) do you think US standards are any lower? I saw a thread about the MK21 and how it was so good in spite of its age b/c of the e. euro cold war prop machine pouring money into radio, etc. Is there any truth to all of that or myth? Also, dano raised a good point: so, in your rankings, what about poor handling technique (not that I am i any way inferring that is the case w/u dano ;-)? I am not a pro but will do 95% of my own booming so I hope to improve. Is that an important pre-purchase consideration? I am just an enthusiast, not a pro. Thanks for insights to you and dano.
Click to expand...
 
hi john

hi john

you had mentioned the following mics
where do you rank sanken shotgun products???:nads:


John Willett said:
The MKH 60 will be much better, it is a superb mic.

The NTG3 is, as far as I am aware, basically a copy of the old MKH 416 and the MKH 60 is very much better than that.

In order of quality - IMHO - best first:-
1 - Schoeps SuperCMIT
=2 - Sennheiser MKH 8060 / Schoeps CMIT
4 - MKH 60 (but very close to above)
5 - Neumann KMR 81
6 - Sennehiser MKH 416
7 - Røde NTG3
Click to expand...
 
caldwell said:
you had mentioned the following mics
where do you rank sanken shotgun products???:nads:
Click to expand...

I'm not that familiar with Sanken in the real world - from the little I have had and pro. sound recordists I have talked to over the years, I would rate them as about=6 or 6.5 in my list above, I think.
 
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