mixers
- Thread starter brianluce
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taubkin
Veteran
You can buy an electric guitar for 50 bucks, and still some people go with Fender Stratocasters that go over a grand. You can buy a violin for what, 300 bucks? Still a Stradivirus cost more than a million dollars.
In sound nothing is that simple. Preamps are that way also, as with any other electronics you will find in a mixer. People pay for good desing, functionability, durability, and most important, for the sound. Hey I can buy a disposeable camera for 5 bucks, and yet, a hasselblad will go around 5K.
Wait a minute, why buy a DVX? I'm sure I can get a VHS-C camcorder for much less...
In sound nothing is that simple. Preamps are that way also, as with any other electronics you will find in a mixer. People pay for good desing, functionability, durability, and most important, for the sound. Hey I can buy a disposeable camera for 5 bucks, and yet, a hasselblad will go around 5K.
Wait a minute, why buy a DVX? I'm sure I can get a VHS-C camcorder for much less...
MattinSTL
Sound Modulator
Brian... I feel your pain... I didn't understand the value in a premium mixer before either. There's a lot to it... but the bottom line is this, unless you're also using a digital recorder then you may as well get a cheap mixer with decent (but not great) specs.
Something like the Sound Devices MixPre would probably be lost on your ears if you end up just going into the DVX line-in anyway.
I have an SD MM-1 in the marketplace right now 'cause when it sells I'm getting a MixPre... and $670 is nutty for something that doesn't even MAKE or RECORD sound... but only routes it!
Once you hear a good mixer (which is also a pre-amp) feeding a digital recorder it all makes sense.
The other function a mixer provides is the mixing (duh, obviously) and the monitoring of the audio ahead of the recorder so you can make adjustments and get a better recording. Those two functions are valuable, but they aren't what makes some mixers cost so much.
It's the quality of the components and the cleanliness of the signal path which ends up as audible signatures of quality that justify the prices.
Something like the Sound Devices MixPre would probably be lost on your ears if you end up just going into the DVX line-in anyway.
I have an SD MM-1 in the marketplace right now 'cause when it sells I'm getting a MixPre... and $670 is nutty for something that doesn't even MAKE or RECORD sound... but only routes it!
Once you hear a good mixer (which is also a pre-amp) feeding a digital recorder it all makes sense.
The other function a mixer provides is the mixing (duh, obviously) and the monitoring of the audio ahead of the recorder so you can make adjustments and get a better recording. Those two functions are valuable, but they aren't what makes some mixers cost so much.
It's the quality of the components and the cleanliness of the signal path which ends up as audible signatures of quality that justify the prices.
wabbit
Evil has Ears
Pre-amps are a big reason good mixers cost so much (don't forget the meters, limiters, pots, etc). Durability and quality design also add to the price. Mostly, demand drives everything when it comes to price. If every household had a field mixer just like a TV then the MixPre would probably sell for $200 bucks.
The one area that has always frustrated me is zepplins. Now that is a piece of pro-gear that someone could make and sell at a profit for about half the going rate. When I tell people on set how much the Timecode slate cost their jaw usually hits the ground. "A LED display and a quality timing crystal cost what?" Use to think boompoles were overpriced but once you have used a cheap pole you appreciate the quality that goes into a K-tek or Ambient.
When you buy professional gear you end up paying some pretty high prices but since it's professional gear it just gets added to the price of doing business.
Best
The one area that has always frustrated me is zepplins. Now that is a piece of pro-gear that someone could make and sell at a profit for about half the going rate. When I tell people on set how much the Timecode slate cost their jaw usually hits the ground. "A LED display and a quality timing crystal cost what?" Use to think boompoles were overpriced but once you have used a cheap pole you appreciate the quality that goes into a K-tek or Ambient.
When you buy professional gear you end up paying some pretty high prices but since it's professional gear it just gets added to the price of doing business.
Best
brianluce said:
If you're asking what a preamp does, here it is: Basically, a mixer mixes audio signals at line level. Line level maxes out at about 1.2V. However, signals come in from microphones at mic level, which is only about 0.01V. So you need a pre-amp to amplify the 0.01V up to 1.2V. The design of a good pre-amp can be difficult because not only does it have to amplify the signal by about 120x, but it also has to do it without adding any distortion (at least in the audible frequency range 20Hz-20kHz).
It's quite possible that the electronic components for a preamp may only cost $75 or less. But then you add the other hardware (knobs, case, etc.), r&d costs, profit margins, etc., and it can get quite expensive.
And yes, the dvx does have built in pre-amps. When you select mic level on the inputs, then you are automactically engaging the pre-amps.
The reason good mixers are expensive is generally because design is expensive, the components are expensive, and the demand for high quality stuff is low. If by mixer you mean "Field Mixer", the reason they are expensive is because the demand is really quite low, and there is zero demand for a cheapo mixer. Anyone that is interested wants one that is really good, not a crummy Behringer ripoff of a good field mixer.
A preamp can actually be a fairly simple device. You can get a preamp on a chip for 10 cents. This is the kind of preamp you find on a 59$ Behringer mixer, or a Soundblaster, or a DVX100a. They work, but they are not that great. Most preamps that are considered "high quality" are solid state or tube designs. Tube designs are not practical for a lot of devices, and solid state designs drive the price up quite a bit due to the cost of the components. In addition, it takes a lot more work to minaturize a non IC based design.
I am in the process of building some preamps at home. They are based on the design of a quite simple, but extremely popular and high quality preamp. The cost of the input transformer and the output transformer alone is about 100$. Because of this, getting a high quality preamp for 500-1000 a channel is generally considered a "good value".
Have a listen here to my audio shootout here: http://www.2629.com
and listen to the difference between the built in DVX100 preamp and a good outboard preamp.
A preamp can actually be a fairly simple device. You can get a preamp on a chip for 10 cents. This is the kind of preamp you find on a 59$ Behringer mixer, or a Soundblaster, or a DVX100a. They work, but they are not that great. Most preamps that are considered "high quality" are solid state or tube designs. Tube designs are not practical for a lot of devices, and solid state designs drive the price up quite a bit due to the cost of the components. In addition, it takes a lot more work to minaturize a non IC based design.
I am in the process of building some preamps at home. They are based on the design of a quite simple, but extremely popular and high quality preamp. The cost of the input transformer and the output transformer alone is about 100$. Because of this, getting a high quality preamp for 500-1000 a channel is generally considered a "good value".
Have a listen here to my audio shootout here: http://www.2629.com
and listen to the difference between the built in DVX100 preamp and a good outboard preamp.
