Mitchell Report Comes Out Today

Kyser said:
That's just it. They are not ALL doing it. There are some guys who made it on hard work alone.

Time to clean house and make the sport respectable.
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I think you missed my point. I know that EVERYONE isn't juicing. I'm just saying that if I'm sitting in the clubhouse in spring training, and I see a bunch of guys doing HGH before it was banned, and I know that I am close to being cut, I might do it. It's one thing to say "This is against the rules, he knew it, did it, so he should be punished" and "He shouldn't have done it because in my opinion it was cheating, even though it wasn't strictly against the rules" I don't feel like my own kitchen is clean enought o pass that judgement on someone else.
 
HorseFilms said:
The name that made me laugh the hardest:

Chuck Knoblauch


:grin:
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I was a big fan of Chuck Knoblauch when he was a Yankee. He was a great leadoff hitter and averaged 4.1 pitches per plate apperience, which puts him up there historically with some of the greatest lead off hitters of all time.

I liked him a bunch
 
Jeremy Ordan said:
I was a big fan of Chuck Knoblauch when he was a Yankee. He was a great leadoff hitter and averaged 4.1 pitches per plate apperience, which puts him up there historically with some of the greatest lead off hitters of all time.

I liked him a bunch
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I was a fan of his when he was here, too. It's just that he's the last person I expected to see on the list.:huh:
 
I had never thought about it before but I now have no doubt that Paul Lo Duca was on the juice while he was with the Dodgers. He spent a lot of time in the minors and I remember whenever he was inserted into a game, I'd say, "well, the Dodgers have given up on this one," because he just couldn't hit. Suddenly, the next year, he turns into a really good hitter..."over night?"


From the Mitchell Report:

"Steroids aren’t being used anymore on him. Big part of this.
Might have some value to trade . . . Florida might have interest.
. . . Got off the steroids . . . Took away a lot of hard line drives.
. . . Can get comparable value back would consider trading. . . . If
you do trade him, will get back on the stuff and try to show you he
can have a good year. That’s his makeup. Comes to play. Last
year of contract, playing for 05"
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They should reset all the record books back to 1995 or so. It's like flushing a toilet. Clean the crap out. Yep, even if it means throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Before I mix another metaphor I will shut up now.
 
You still have to remember that hitting a round ball traveling at 90 mph with a round bat, and having it go where you want it to go is a measure of skill and discipline. Does juicing increase bat speed? probably. Does it increase skill? No.
 
Although I agree that it is probably a problem in most sports you just don't see it as prominently in sports like Hockey.

I think it is because the leaders in Hockey, past and present, just don't fit the bill.

Guys like Gretzky, Lemieux, & Crosby... they are the best of the best, naturally.

Bonds and McGwire (a while back) really put the spotlight on the problem in baseball.

If Crosby starts breaking some of Gretzky's records... "Juice" won't be the the first thing that pops into mind. It wouldn't even be a thought.

How the game is played today as compared to yesterday would be the only issue.

Either way, I'm glad that they are finally starting to clean house.

Mike
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I wonder why that is? Hockey is a game that's all about speed and power? You'd think it would be more prevelant. Since the MLB scandel has come out the NHL started testing, they jumped on the ball pretty quickly.The only person I can think of that got busted for HGH was Bryan Berard and he was rehabing an injury at the time (which doesn't make it right). There a pretty big honour code in hockey, you'd lose a lot of respect from your fellow players if you were ever caught.

MLB is partially to blame in all of this too. I'm sure they were well aware of what was going on. After the strike in 94 baseball lost a lot of fans and they really didn't start getting them back until the ball was constantly flying out of the park.

I can remember every summer wondering when someone was going to break the homerun record, it was always the impossible one to break and no one was going to do it. It too bad that Maris's and Aaron's records where broken during this time, would have been cool to see a clean player actually do it rather than some juiced up freak.

Also, John Rocker, with a temper like that I would have never of guessed he was on roids.
 
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Jim Brennan said:
You still have to remember that hitting a round ball traveling at 90 mph with a round bat, and having it go where you want it to go is a measure of skill and discipline. Does juicing increase bat speed? probably. Does it increase skill? No.
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Ignore that. After re-reading it, it's a pointless post under the circumstances.
 
cinealma said:
If anybody on that list needed to take steroids, it was Kevin Brown. :laugh:
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From the Mitchell Report:

"In the notes of the October 2003 meetings among Dodgers officials, it was
reportedly said of Brown:

Kevin Brown – getting to the age of nagging injuries . . . Question
what kind of medication he takes . . . Effectiveness goes down
covering 1st base or running bases. Common in soccer players and
are more susceptible if you take meds to increase your muscles –
doesn’t increase the attachments. Is he open to adjusting how he
takes care of himself? He knows he now needs to do stuff before
coming to spring training to be ready. Steroids speculated by
GM.

Less than two months later, the Dodgers traded Brown to the Yankees."
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Jim Brennan said:
I think you missed my point. I know that EVERYONE isn't juicing. I'm just saying that if I'm sitting in the clubhouse in spring training, and I see a bunch of guys doing HGH before it was banned, and I know that I am close to being cut, I might do it.
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Sorry, when you said...

Jim Brennan said:
I get that if you break the rules you should get busted. But I have to empathize with the guys who are on the bubble, especially before HGH was banned. All these guys are doing it, and you get a choice between juicing and making a million plus a year for 8-10 years, or not juicing and going back to the minors and making a lot less. I can't say I wouldn't consider it.
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I guess I misread you and you just meant the guys on the list?

Either way, I can honestly say that I wouldn't touch that garbage. Some people have morals, some don't. It's the easy way out. I'm sure that this wasn't the first time they took the easy way out. It's all about character.

These guys who cheated to get somewhere in life probably didn't start with cheating in MLB. It probably began a long time ago for them. Cheating in school... etc... anything to get ahead.

Just my opinion...

Mike
 
JConnors said:
I wonder why that is? Hockey is a game that's all about speed and power? You'd think it would be more prevelant. Since the MLB scandel has come out the NHL started testing, they jumped on the ball pretty quickly.The only person I can think of that got busted for HGH was Bryan Berard and he was rehabing an injury at the time (which doesn't make it right). There a pretty big honour code in hockey, you'd lose a lot of respect from your fellow players if you were ever caught.

MLB is partially to blame in all of this too. I'm sure they were well aware of what was going on. After the strike in 94 baseball lost a lot of fans and they really didn't start getting them back until the ball was constantly flying out of the park.
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Couldn't agree more. :thumbup:

It was obvious to everyone that it was going on for years.
This is a first step at least...

Mike
 
Selig's conference is going on right now.

He has said that he is going to punish those active players implicated within the report and that the discipline that he issues will be public.

He wants to punish these people, but at the same time, he allowed this to happen under his watch. So for all the great things Selig has done (wild card, huge growth, interleague play, all star game meaning something, records, expansion) he will forever be tainted with the strike that forever ruined baseball for tons of fans (the Expos never rebounded) and overseeing the steriod era.

I think I hate Bud Selig.














I just want to move on from this whole situation and focus on my Yankees winning next season
 
Yeah, that strike cost the Expos their franchise (that and a terrible stadium). They had a good shot at winning the World Series that year.
 
Kyser,

I meant "all these guys" in the generic sense. Like "there's all these guys on this site called DVXuser who are in love with their cameras" :grin: Not meaning each individual, just a large proportion.

And I don't see doing something that is not against the rules (at that time) as being a necessarily moral or immoral choice. Are there really people who have not had a lapse in judgement, expecially in the face of continuing or advancing a career that you absolutley love? Or in the face of such large financial gains? I'm the kind of guy who will walk back to the grocery store to give back a dollar. But situations of such intense pressure can cloud judgement. Especially when you are in that environment, all the time with guys you respect and trust who are doing it. It's like trying to quit drinking, but being in a bar, surrounded by alcoholics everyday.
 
I still don't see how it was "cheating"? It wasn't against the rules. It's professionals getting paid to perform a service. Why wouldn't you use science available to keep you performing so you keep getting paid? Do we call all the guys using maple bats cheaters? Or the newest latest Air Nike cleats? What about all the players who got Tommy John surgeries that enabled them to extend their careers? What about all the atheletes that get "shot up" between innings/periods/quarters to numb that aching ankle/shoulder/back so that they can get their butts back out on the field? Are they cheaters to?
 
Jim, I understand.

I don't agree with the analogy though.
It's easy to quit drinking when you've never picked up the bottle.

This is a small list, just think of the great athletes that are not on it. They know that hard work and character can accomplish anything.

No problem though, we just disagree on minor points.

Cheers,

Mike
 
cinealma said:
I still don't see how it was "cheating"?...
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