Microphones for "off the grid" filmmaking? (Condenser vs. dynamic)

A

AbcAbcwebd

Member
I'm shooting a movie this summer in rural Colorado. We're filmming in the mountains which means no electricity, except for betteries. So I'm trying to figure out the sound part of it....

Is it possible to get high quality (cinema worthy) sound with a dynamic micophone, or should I try to run condensers from batteries?


Thanks in advance!
 
For the most part, dynamic mics aren't used too much in film making. The exception is interview mics which are very common for news programming or lecturn use where seeing the mic in the frame doesn't matter. Interview mics can be very effective when the speaker is close enough to eat them. Good ones are very rugged and are good for lack of handling noise.

Condensor mics, powered by your cam or a mixer should probably be your workhorse capture devices. Think shotgun, hyper types, or lavalier. Think wind protection and shock mounting. Read the stickies.

Grant
 
Dynamics wont cut it unless the talent is holding it close to their mouths. Basically they have a VERY short range so generally for film the answer is no.
 
FYI, most location sound recordists rely on equipment that is totally battery powered. If you can provide a more detailed description of what you will be shooting, I'm sure you'll get lots of help here regarding the most appropriate tools for the job.
 
AbcAbcwebd said:
I'm shooting a movie this summer in rural Colorado. We're filmming in the mountains which means no electricity, except for betteries. So I'm trying to figure out the sound part of it....

Is it possible to get high quality (cinema worthy) sound with a dynamic micophone, or should I try to run condensers from batteries?


Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
I'm saying this with respect.
Asking this type of question leads me to believe you are new to sound.
Great. Learn as much as you can.. but asking this question I can also safely say if in the end you want
"cinema worthy sound" you better hire someone with more experience than yourself.

Wouldn't it be a shame to spend your whole summer shooting your film and in the end have "below average" sound
when you are striving for excellent sound?
That's what you're setting yourself up for.

If you insist on doing the sound yourself because of whatever reason, don't expect it to be "cinema worthy".
It's just not going to happen.

Choosing the type of mic's and gear, and plugging it all in so it works is the EASY part.
It's everything that goes into capturing the sound correctly which is where the magic happens.
 
Rippie said:
I'm saying this with respect.
Asking this type of question leads me to believe you are new to sound.
Great. Learn as much as you can.. but asking this question I can also safely say if in the end you want
"cinema worthy sound" you better hire someone with more experience than yourself.

Wouldn't it be a shame to spend your whole summer shooting your film and in the end have "below average" sound
when you are striving for excellent sound?
That's what you're setting yourself up for.

If you insist on doing the sound yourself because of whatever reason, don't expect it to be "cinema worthy".
It's just not going to happen.

Choosing the type of mic's and gear, and plugging it all in so it works is the EASY part.
It's everything that goes into capturing the sound correctly which is where the magic happens.
Click to expand...
I agree with this. But, hey everyone chooses their own paths.

I would like to say, if you are shooting in a remote location, do NOT use a mic that is powered from your camera or mixer. Use one that takes batteries.

Reason: Every additional device that requires power you add to either a mixer or a camera, pulls time off the battery charge. A camera battery that would last 2 hrs, solid shooting, now only lasts 1.5 hrs. And many shotguns use a AA battery for self powering, and those batteries are cheap, and usually last quite a while. But if you are truly remote, will you be able to charge up your camera battery? Be frugal with what power you have available.
 
I personally would never want to NOT use my mixer's phantom to power a mic.
In a jungle or an urban setting.

I wouldn't want to use an electret condenser as Ive never seen one that I like the sound of.
I wouldn't want to use an external 48v supply because thats just one more device that needs batts.

I can power a phantom mic off a mixer with an NP1 that lasts literally DAYS of shooting.

If power was an absolute issue for an extended time but mobility wasn't a factor higher ah SLA batts could last
weeks.
Could also use them at basecamp to charge smaller batts if needed.

I doubt any of this is an option for the OP but
I'm not sure a blanket statement of "dont use a mic thats powered from a mixer"
should be such an absolute.
 
Thanks for all the responses!
It sounds like dynamics won't work. I figured that'd be the case, but just thought I'd ask....
Anyway, if condensers can run on AA batteries than that's not really a problem.

As far as this being a silly question, I don't take offense. It's true, I am new to sound. And I do realize it's a skill that takes time to learn. When I say "cinema quality" sound I don't necesarily mean I'll be able to do that now, but if I'm going to spend several hundred or even several thousand dollars on a microphone, I want to get something that will eventually (as I get better) be able to give me "cinema quality" sound.

As far as this summer goes, I'll keep hiring a sound guy in mind. I'm sure he/she would be able to add a lot, hopfully I can fit it in the budget.....


Thanks again!

UPDATE: I've been talking with someone else on the project and we now have a Sennheiser short shotgun, a Lectro lavalier mike, a Shure portable sound mixer, a boom pole/wind socks, and a good shot of getting a sound specialist on the team.
 
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Abc,

Just to add, one thing to keep in mind while you're looking at gear, is that working audio professionals nearly always own their own gear from mics, mixers, recorders, cables, ect.... Gear that they know backwards and forwards, trust, and can get results out of.

The gear you're looking at may be very good, but whoever is going to use it on set needs to learn it, practice with it, and be very comfortable with all of it. As a director (I'm assuming that's your focus) I'm sure you can appreciate the amount of concentration is takes to focus on the story, actors, editing in your head, ect... Having to teach and watch the audio guy using your gear on set to ensure he's doing his job is just one more thing to worry about. I've done it, and from the number of questions I got on-set about how my gear worked (we'd gone over it before shooting several times) to the audio quality I had in post, I don't suggest it.

The only reason to invest in professional grade gear, imho, is if you want to work professionally in audio yourself.

Personally, even though I own a lot of audio gear, I would stretch my budget as much as possible to fit in an audio pro with his own gear on any future films I direct on.
 
Doc Bernard said:
I agree with this. But, hey everyone chooses their own paths.

I would like to say, if you are shooting in a remote location, do NOT use a mic that is powered from your camera or mixer. Use one that takes batteries.

Reason: Every additional device that requires power you add to either a mixer or a camera, pulls time off the battery charge. A camera battery that would last 2 hrs, solid shooting, now only lasts 1.5 hrs. And many shotguns use a AA battery for self powering, and those batteries are cheap, and usually last quite a while. But if you are truly remote, will you be able to charge up your camera battery? Be frugal with what power you have available.
Click to expand...

The closest I, personally, come these days to 'off the grid' is when I go to Burning Man. Only a week... but to power everything, takes quite a bit of 'batteries'. Until one of the camps started putting up a 'massive' solar array, and made their power available for recharging, I would have to run my vehicle for about an hour or 2 a day, to keep its battery up, and then recharge my equipment batteries.

I have thought about modifying some equipment to use 12VDC directly... rather than going through an inverter to 120, then back down to whatever via the wall wart... but indolence strikes...
 
j1clark@ucsd.edu said:
I have thought about modifying some equipment to use 12VDC directly... rather than going through an inverter to 120, then back down to whatever via the wall wart... but indolence strikes...
Click to expand...
That's one of the main reasons I miss my JVC GY-X2 (Man, then S-VHS was the Hi-Def) Yeah, I just aged myself. I could run her directly from my cigarette lighter outlet, even built a 100' cord for it. LOL, I used to call my Ford Explorer "The Biggest Camera Battery Ever". It was great for airshows and other outdoor venues. My press pass got me right next to the flight line, with my vehicle. Those were the days......sigh.
 
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Noiz2 said:
Dynamics wont cut it unless the talent is holding it close to their mouths. Basically they have a VERY short range so generally for film the answer is no.
Click to expand...

To visually see and hear what happens when you move the sound source away from a dynamic mic, watch at about 5:48. You'll get the idea real quick if you jump back and listen to the first mic examples which are shotguns.

Hope this helps.
 
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