Michael Moore/Fahrenheit 9/11

Re: Michael Moore/Fahrenheit 9/11

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=movies;num=1088435003;start=30#38 date=06/29/04 at 19:09:02]
Pretty much makes the title of that upcoming anti-Moore movie a dead-ringer, I'd say.
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Superb find.
 
Re: Michael Moore/Fahrenheit 9/11

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=movies;num=1088435003;start=30#38 date=06/29/04 at 19:09:02]http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/editorial/2651756

Pretty much makes the title of that upcoming anti-Moore movie a dead-ringer, I'd say.
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An article by a right-wing columnist. What a shock. I guess it would come as quite a suprise to note that Brooks cherry-picks comments from Moore and then wraps it in commentary to color what Moore is saying. In other words, he does what you supposedly despite in Moore's tactics (and I say "supposedly" because let's get real, no right-winger really cares when someone distorts the truth; otherwise Bush wouldn't be president).

You're talking about a divided America and Moore contributing to the division, but when anyone (well, when any liberal) dares criticize anything American, including the policies of Bush, the right accuses them of HATING AMERICA. I can think of few rebukes more divisive than that.
 
Re: Michael Moore/Fahrenheit 9/11

Those comments of Moore's are pretty hard to take out of context, especially when there are several instances of the same sentiment.

He obviously loathes the American people (what else can you call it)? Can you love a country and loathe its people? If so, what is it that you love?

And I'm not, by the way, a "right-winger" . . .
 
Re: Michael Moore/Fahrenheit 9/11

[quote author=Ecna Lubmatic link=board=movies;num=1088435003;start=30#36 date=06/29/04 at 18:55:42]who's michael moore?   ;)[/quote]

He is the director of the late John Candy movie "Canadian Bacon"
 
Re: Michael Moore/Fahrenheit 9/11

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=movies;num=1088435003;start=30#42 date=06/30/04 at 13:07:46]Those comments of Moore's are pretty hard to take out of context, especially when there are several instances of the same sentiment.[/quote]

It's not hard to take ANY comment out of context.

"They are possibly the dumbest people on the planet... in thrall to conniving, thieving, smug pricks."

Part of the problem here is that the Mirror article doesn't quote the entire interview. The ellipses there are telling as is the absense of a question posed. But here he says "they" so it's not clear who he's talking about. In another sentence, however, he refers to Americans as "we."

"We Americans suffer from an enforced ignorance. We don't know about anything that's happening outside our country. Our stupidity is embarrassing. National Geographic produced a survey which showed that 60 per cent of 18-25 year olds don't know where Great Britain is on a map. And 92 per cent of us don't own a passport."

This is the rest of that statement. Does National Geographic loathe Americans? I doubt it.

He obviously loathes the American people (what else can you call it)? Can you love a country and loathe its people?
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I have no doubt that Moore loathes certain aspects of the American people. I don't think that's unique to Moore, certainly not unique to the Left, nor does it mean he hates all Americans or hates his country. I loathe some aspects of my family. But I also love my family. One is not exclusive of the other.

But then, what it takes to be accused of hating America gets less and less every day. Again, I think complaining about divisiveness and then accusing someone of hating America in the same breath seems...let's just say...counter-productive.
 
Re: Michael Moore/Fahrenheit 9/11

"You're stuck with being connected to this country of mine, which is known for bringing sadness and misery to places around the globe."

"We, the United States of America, are culpable in committing so many acts of terror and bloodshed that we had better get a clue about the culture of violence in which we have been active participants."

"Don't be like us," he told a crowd in Berlin. "You've got to stand up, right? You've got to be brave."

"Should such an ignorant people lead the world?"

I might grant you that any one sentence can be taken out of context, but when the same themes keep popping up over and over, "context" starts to decrease in importance.  He says the same things again and again in ANY context.

I can most certainly accuse someone of contributing to divisiveness when it's warranted, and in Moore's case, it is.  Saying I’m being counter-productive is like blaming me for the house falling down when all I did was point out one of the termites.

As to whether or not he "hates America," well, his own words don't serve him well on that score.

Though I guess the question is, why do you feel so compelled to defend the man given his one statement after another?  Certainly, you're justified in defending the film, but the artist is not the art.
 
Re: Michael Moore/Fahrenheit 9/11

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=movies;num=1088435003;start=45#45 date=06/30/04 at 14:22:57]
"Don't be like us," he told a crowd in Berlin."
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apparently those poor germans are still paying for Hitler's sins, as they had to be stuck listening(and smelling) Michael Moore.
 
Re: Michael Moore/Fahrenheit 9/11

What I meant by small or meak was you and me....
The people who hold a Neautral view based on fact... or at least just their own opinions in the face of a Media Dominated Society.....

And the power that this film has had to give such a minority a voice and vehicle for a second opnion....

An open mind and a closed fist means to listen to the worlds voice the dominant view,with an opend mind and then find its true or not true meaning,and always take it with a closed fist and or grain of salt... and be willing to fight to be heard.

Exucse me but nazis were closed minded with open fists/palms Ready to recieve a world dominated by a man who was leadinng half the world into utter darkness....


I wanted to remain Neutral in starting this post... so we could all have a basis for and type of opinion/s

And i am and was Neutral in also seeing the film,for those who dissmiss Michael moore as a hack making things up,or not getting his facts straight,these things which came out in the film are well known "to all but the general public" and have been reported by cnn nbc etc. and all the other news channels for whom footage was given to more by the same.

true moore did have a way of making george look like a fool,but george also does a good job of that himself,as a Neutral observer i must say for the most part that, moore observed the facts and put them into order for the general public to make up their own minds... generally. thanks all have a great chat.

Im gonna go watch the Ultimate Ric Flair collection now... ;D
 
Re: Michael Moore/Fahrenheit 9/11

[quote author=David Jimerson link=board=movies;num=1088435003;start=45#45 date=06/30/04 at 14:22:57]I can most certainly accuse someone of contributing to divisiveness when it's warranted, and in Moore's case, it is. Saying I’m being counter-productive is like blaming me for the house falling down when all I did was point out one of the termites.[/quote]

I think Moore might justify his film the same way.

Moore accuses Bush of being incompetent and a liar. You accuse Moore of hating America. Maybe in your world there's a difference there that makes his comments divisive and yours not, but to me it looks like six of one and a half dozen of the other.

Though I guess the question is, why do you feel so compelled to defend the man given his one statement after another? Certainly, you're justified in defending the film, but the artist is not the art.
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Because I think in large part the attacks on him personally are unwarranted. Moore is a loud mouth, no question. And loud mouths often say things spur of the moment, without thinking. Moore has said as much about his infamous Oscar speech.

That is not to say he doesn't think those things. But I've known LOTS of people, right-wing, left-wing, who've said things off-handedly like "anyone who voted for Gore is an idiot." Very few of these comments could stand the light of scrutiny. But it doesn't mean they hate everyone. When someone says, "America is going to hell in a hand basket," it doesn't mean they hate America. It's a lament. I think Moore talks often about the parts of America he doesn't like. The ignorance. The global bullying. Those are his opinions. I don't happen to agree with him on a lot of it, but I understand it.

But if you watch a film like Fahrenheit 9/11, it demonstrates the love he feels for his country, that most of us do, and more than balances out the negative comments he makes. The problem is they don't cover that at Newsmax or in a David Brooks column or any of the places you find these comments collected. Because, they cherry pick. Just as they accuse Moore of doing, they want to find the statements that back up what they already believe.
 
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