Shooting in a crowded outdoor patio bar type situation this weekend, and I'm considering the best mic for the job for capturing dialogue. I'd normally use my NTG-3 shotgun for any kind of outdoor use, but I'm really looking to isolate the dialogue between two people sitting at a table who will likely be surrounded by other noisy people, so using my hyper comes to mind. Or a maybe a pair of lavs, since it's just two people? Recommendations based on your past experiences are welcome.
Mic type for crowded outdoor bar
- Thread starter jthabel
- Start date
combatentropy
Veteran
A lavalier isolates better than a shotgun, which in turn isolates better than a hypercardioid. With any of these, you can get intelligible dialog. But I'm more worried about noticeable shifts in background sounds at every cut. The best remedy for that is to pay all of the extras to just mouth their conversation and not actually make any sounds, like they do in the movies.
If you don't have the budget for a closed set and a crowd of extras, then put a lavalier on each actor, as close to their mouths as you can get away with. That should make the background sound as quiet as possible. Also, before or afterward, record several minutes of just the background noise, to mix in later and smoothe over the cuts.
With the lavaliers so close, tell the actors not to turn their heads in the middle of a line. Else their volume and sound quality will noticeably shift. If the lav is just a few inches from the mouth, and the head moves to the right or left a few inches, then the distance from the mic to the mouth just changed considerably. And the volume of sound changes with the distance squared. If the distance doubles, the volume is quartered, not just halved.
If you don't have the budget for a closed set and a crowd of extras, then put a lavalier on each actor, as close to their mouths as you can get away with. That should make the background sound as quiet as possible. Also, before or afterward, record several minutes of just the background noise, to mix in later and smoothe over the cuts.
With the lavaliers so close, tell the actors not to turn their heads in the middle of a line. Else their volume and sound quality will noticeably shift. If the lav is just a few inches from the mouth, and the head moves to the right or left a few inches, then the distance from the mic to the mouth just changed considerably. And the volume of sound changes with the distance squared. If the distance doubles, the volume is quartered, not just halved.
Last edited:
Richard Crowley
Veteran
Is this scripted? Is this traditional feature shooting scheme (wide/master, separate CU over the shoulder for each actor)?
Do the actors know their lines well enough to do them consistently for each setup? Is this a "real" crowd? Or are these extras who you can direct to be silent?
You could just use the audio from the master/wide shot as a throw-away guide, and mic the CU shots in the traditional way with your NTG-3.
Or is this documentary/"reality"? No script. Ad-lib.
What kind of distance, angles, framing?
It seems likely that the lavs would be the better choice where you have no control over the ambient noise and can't predict the camera shots.
Do the actors know their lines well enough to do them consistently for each setup? Is this a "real" crowd? Or are these extras who you can direct to be silent?
You could just use the audio from the master/wide shot as a throw-away guide, and mic the CU shots in the traditional way with your NTG-3.
Or is this documentary/"reality"? No script. Ad-lib.
What kind of distance, angles, framing?
It seems likely that the lavs would be the better choice where you have no control over the ambient noise and can't predict the camera shots.
This will be a documentary-style non-scripted shoot. Not an ideal situation by any means. I'll likely go with the lavs.
Noiz2
Sound Ninja
You said "documentary-style". That implies it's a narrative feature and the "crowd" is part of the cast. They kind of have to be anyway since if it's not a real documentary you will need releases from everyone in the shot.
So assuming the "crowd" is part of the cast they should be directed to not make any sounds. It's not for you as much as for the picture editor who will go through hell if you have multiple takes with changing background dialog. Shooting with talking extras isn't "more authentic" it's just plain stupid. Though I would choose different words when presenting it to the director. Just tell them that if you shoot it like this not only will they probably have to ADR the scene they will also have to redo all the background sounds also. So they might as well save some grief and at least get the dialog during the shoot.
So assuming the "crowd" is part of the cast they should be directed to not make any sounds. It's not for you as much as for the picture editor who will go through hell if you have multiple takes with changing background dialog. Shooting with talking extras isn't "more authentic" it's just plain stupid. Though I would choose different words when presenting it to the director. Just tell them that if you shoot it like this not only will they probably have to ADR the scene they will also have to redo all the background sounds also. So they might as well save some grief and at least get the dialog during the shoot.
