Mic Setup for Live Theater

obi1jacobi

obi1jacobi

Active member
Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster here. I was wondering if you had any suggestions for mic choice as far as capturing audio for community theater situations. The theater will be a black box space (small with a lot of reflections). My first instinct would be to set up a cardiod (Sennheiser ME64) near the stage so as to reject the audience, but have the widest range of pickup for the actors. I would either have to run double system audio since my camera might be too far away, or would have to run a long xlr cable from the camera. Anybody else been in this situation before?
 
Hmm, maybe I asked this this wrong way. I guess what I was really wondering was whether a cardiod pattern mic would be sufficient to cover a small stage of actors. What mic setup would you use, personally? The actors won't be miked.
 
Hey obi, here's what I've done in situations like that in the past (I do pro audio recording/production and I've done some work for the theater department at the college where I work).

First, it would be helpful to know specifically what mics you've got available. That would help in determining the best setup for you. If you want to post a list of them, I might be able to refine the suggestions below to help you better.

But, first, here's what I'd do:

1) Use a PZM (also commonly called a boundary mic) on the front center of the stage.

2) Set up two good cardiod microphones (here I'd recommend using studio small-diaphragm cardiods such as the Neumann KM184, DON'T use a shotgun mic) in a stereo spaced pair, pointing directly at the stage such that it cuts the stage into thirds. Put them on boom stands and place them near the front row of seats in the auditorium (don't put them at the base of the stage itself... they'll pick up way too much foot noise). Ideally extend your boom stands to where they're sticking straight up and get the mics to the head level of the actors on stage and aim them straight at the stage.

3) record all three mics into a multi-track recorder (I personally use an ADAT HD24, but if you don't own a recording studio, I doubt you've got one of these. Any multi-track recorder that has time-code will work for you. Make sure you're in the same sampling rate as your video... probably 48khz.)

4) mix the sound together in post such that you've got a good balance of the three mics. Keep in mind that your PZM is likely to pick up a lot of "foot" sounds from the stage, so you may need to process that audio to remove the sounds of feet clunking.)

5) If you don't have access to all this equipment, then cut out the PZM and just use two good studio-grade small-diaphragm condensors placed as I mentioned above and feed both those lines into your camera XLR inputs and have the levels equal on them. They'll pick up the actors quite well and also give you a bit of crowd response (crowd noise could be more than usual if the back of the stage is highly reflective).

Good luck... if you want to post a specific list of mics you've got available, I may be able to give you some better instruction/recommendations.
 
If you use an external multi-track recorder you can use either your camera's mic or a standard shotgun with your camera that will record not only what you get from the stage, but the house as well. Mix this in to your final audio track very lightly just to give some fullness and ambience.
 
Thank you for your reply davbeisner! I have a budget of about $2500 to get audio gear. Mostly I would be using it for documentary, narrative film type work, but jobs such as this black box theater production come up as well. I've been doing hours and hours of research on the best method for purchasing "start up gear" which of courses ranges from "buy a lot of cheaper mics so you can pick what you need" to "get one or two good mics since there's no point in wasting money on the cheap stuff" Really I've found that I can afford a good shotgun or hypercardiod mic, a lavalier, and maybe one of the cheaper cardiod or omnis. So far, as far as sets go, I've been debating between the Sanken CS3e for my shotgun, a Countryman B6 for Lav, and then a cheap cardiod- maybe the ME64? Of course with that list, the only thing I could use for this theater production would be the ME64. The other idea was to just buy the Schoeps cmc641 and start adding on capsules as I need them.

So really.... this theater question is more about how to get decent sound with field recording mics, rather than buying specific mics (boundary) or even a stereo set which would be out of my range.

So, I suppose the new question is a bit off topic of my own post. It really should be "what could I get away with in shooting this small theater production" when my equipment will be based on narrative film/documentary audio work.


On second thought, I suppose there is always the
Kit #8: Hey... Now You're Talking Package Kit
Who It's For: People looking to make a solid investment into beginning sound and are looking for solid location sound immediately. This kit will work for interiors, exteriors, and help users progress and build upon.
Includes: Audio Technica 4043a Shotgun Mic ($500), Oktava MK012 w/ Hyper Cardiod Cap ($180), Rycote BBG ($100), Rycote Softie ($100), KteK KSSM ($100), Gitzo Carbon Fiber Boom Pole ($300) Total Cost: $1280

idea which would leave room to buy a field recorder or a cardiod set for these theater situations. I'm used to doing sound for other peoples film projects where they have a dedicated sound department using double system recording, so the idea of doing sound for my own, one man projects is intimidating, considering I know the horror of using a camera mounted mic, but know I can't operate sound and the camera well at once...

I wish I could say "the equipment I need is just for interiors" as that would save a lot in my budget, but considering I will be in Kentucky getting footage of horses and doing outside interviews... that just isn't true.
 
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i highly recommend the sanken cub-01 microphone...

it is a boundary/plant mic.

it is a lifesaves when you need to get audio from multiple people in a space where you can't boom, or when you are in a situation where you are booming or lav'ing but you want to place another mic as a backup.

it also gets great ambient sound that can be a huge help for the editor/post person.

i have used it on many tabletops behind props and especially mounted to the ceiling of a car with the mic upside down.

matthew
 
Hmm that also sounds like a good idea. At the moment I was leaning towards buying a stereo pair of small-diaphragm cardioids, but of course my budget does not allow for much.

Does anyone know about this rode set?
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=cart&A=details&Q=&sku=484966&is=REG

The sanken cube mic would be cheaper, but I thought it was more essential for me to have a stereo pair of cardioids for future projects. What i liked about the rode set was that it also had an omni capsule...
 
Instead of getting an Oktava hypercardioid, get an Oktava stereo pair with all three capsule types (~$650 from soundroom.com). This will suit you well ion many situations. You can use 'em as two boom mics in narrative situations with the hyper caps; you can use 'em in many situations as plant mics, and as a stere pair in various configurations for stage and musical purposes.

Can you tell us how big your stage area will be?
 
Hmm, I haven't been given the dimensions yet, but it is going to be a small stage for sure. It's a black box theater setup, but with the audience on one side only. So you think the Oktava will be way more bang for the buck than the Rode? It looks like a great deal.
 
Ullanta, this looks like a fantastic budget solution:
http://www.oktava.com/inc/sdetail/490

I've been toying around with the idea of blue line, rode, etc. But no matter how I sliced it, I wouldn't be able to afford all three pickup patterns with just a single mic, nevermind a stereo pair!

Do you have this set, yourself?
 
I have two of those sets, and a third modded cardioid pair.

My main work is recording classical music and opera. Sometimes even very small/informal operas, which I mic with a cardioid pair of these Oktavas. That's a pretty demanding application.

I don't find the Rodes (NT4/5) to sound very pleasant, especially at a distance, especially for classical music and voice. They seem to be more in their element close-micing certain instruments (such as, say, acoustic guitar). Otherwise they tend to be brittle, harsh, unnatural. I don't have extensive experience with the Blue Lines, but what small experience I have had made me stay away from them for distance micing applications.

The MK-012's tend to be very flattering to most sources. It's very hard to get "bad" sound out of them. Some mics might be more "accurate", and indeed might sound better in some situations, but they tend to be more sensitive to set-up and placement, and thus can also sound much worse. I use the Oktavas in situations where things can be unpredictable, when there's not a lot of sound check time, etc., and they can be relied on to provide a pretty good result. In situations where tere is a lot of sound-check time, they end up winning out over other mics in a decent percentage of situations. Remember, for live performance, the selectiuon criteria are very different from what typical reviews look at... self-noise is generally overwhelmed by noise in the hall/theater; frequency response (especially of hyped mics) that is flattering in the quiet studio may emphasize nasty real world sounds (footsteps, stage creaks, etc); and how the mic responds to imperfectly-placed sources is of utmost importance.

I recently did an interesting test with a lot of mics... a classical music program was holding auditions for performers, and we set up 9 different stereo pairs/techniques. The important point is that there were all different types of ensembles and soloists, and we didn't move the mics. The idea was to see what approaches do best in the widest range of situations. We had mic pairs ranging from the $600 Oktavas to multi-thousand-$ pairs (DPA, Coles, AKG, THE, etc.)... and after extensive blind listening tests with many knowledgeable folks, it turned out that the Oktavas not only were considered "pretty good" for 99% of the ensembles (far more than any other setup), they were also chosen as the best more often than any other mic pair. this gives a good example of what I mean when I say they're great go-to mics, especially in unpredictable circumstances!
 
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Ullanta, would you recommend buying the BBG Windshield,Windjammer, and shockmount for indoor use with your Oktavas or do you use them sans protection on a mic stand? I would buy the former protection when I use it for indoor narrative film stuff (would be using the hypercardiod) but was wondering if I needed to buy another set when using the stereo setup you described. The only real complaints I've heard about these Oktavas are their handling noise.

Now to look up the best stereo miking techniques!
 
On a stand (with a shockmount), handling noise is not a problem. In some spaces, wind noise IS a problem... sometimes drafts, etc., can be a problem. For this though, I've found even cheap foam wind covers will do. Don't use 'em unless you really need 'em. Outdoors, of course, the BBG and dead cat are necessities. You can start with one "outdoor accessory set" and see if it suits your needs.

As has been said, try placing the mics so as to divide the stage in thirds. I would aim the mics a bit towards the center... say 15-30 degrees depending on the width of your stage. Horizontally, point 'em to towards mouth level of the part of the stage where most of the speech will take place if you can.... Place 'em as close to mouth-level as visual constraints allow... but knee-level or lower can work!
 
obi1jacobi said:
Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster here. I was wondering if you had any suggestions for mic choice as far as capturing audio for community theater situations. The theater will be a black box space (small with a lot of reflections). My first instinct would be to set up a cardiod (Sennheiser ME64) near the stage so as to reject the audience, but have the widest range of pickup for the actors. I would either have to run double system audio since my camera might be too far away, or would have to run a long xlr cable from the camera. Anybody else been in this situation before?
Click to expand...


Boundary mics - if placed on the stage - will pick up lots of walking noise.

What I do currently is 2 hanging microphones, eg. AT pro48, cardioids, pointing towards scene, varying angles I test depending on the scene profile. Shure has some too. Their purpose is theatre, choir and sound reinforcement.

I believe more professional/expensive settings use very small microphones weared one per actor, sometimes hidden in the hairs if possible.

A plan I'd like to try is a figure-8 above a supercardioid (read M/S stereo), hanging, pointing towards scene and a pair of cardioids pointing towards audience. Record 4-way. In post decide the proper balance between sound of laughs/claps and sound of actors, as well as the proper sound spread around scene (M/S angles). But that's a lot of work...

Noone should ever use the on-camera mics for theater, the sound is so remote from the scene and the mix laughs/voice is so bad...

Alex
 
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