McKee: Love Him or Hate Him?

S

slondon

Well-known member
Okay, so after reading lots of other folks I finally picked up a copy of McKee and have managed to wade through a big chunk of it.

Am I the only one to find this tome tedious in the extreme? A good editor could have removed 75% of it and made a tidy little tool that left out nothing of consequence.

I'll finish Story because I'm patient about picking nuggets from the dross but a few pages in I couldn't help thinking of Honest Abe: "He can compress the most words into the smallest idea of any man I ever met."

Okay, I'm ready for my drubbing from the fans.

:Drogar-Love(DBG):
 
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I think he's one of the great modern story philosophers, rather than being a by-the-numbers formula salesman like Snyder or whoever else. Story isn't meant to be a quick how-to manual on screenwriting, though; it's a serious study on the philosophy and inner workings of dramatic storytelling. If you find it too wordy, I recommend the audio book version narrated by McKee available on iTunes. I think it was around $20.
 
I'd say its more important to understand the concepts and why and how they work than just memorize where the story points must exist. Short and concise is fine if you don't want to understand how it works, just that it does. Different strokes.
 
McKee actually "gets it". I've read so many screenwriting books by guys like Syd Field and Michael Hauge who just teach structure this and structure that, without actually understanding the why of what storytelling actually is. Sure, it's neat the first time you read "Screenplay" and you sit in front of your favorite movie with a stopwatch and see that ... yep, the act 1 turning point really does usually happen at about 25% of the way through. But thinking that brings you any closer to telling a story is like thinking that taking a typing course teaches you how to write.
 
Yup, I too think "Story" is a classic, and one of the best books on screenwriting I've ever read (and that would be a whole bunch of 'em). Sure it's wordy - most scholarly works are, and that's just what "Story" is - a scholarly work. If you're after more of a direct how-to kind of thing, you might try "The Screenwriter's Bible" by David Trottier. It's very, very good IMO. Syd Field's "Screenplay" is good too, but sort of the opposite of "Story" as Barry implied - a much lighter take on the subject, and much more 'practical' although not necessarily to its advantage.

My other favorite screenwriting book (aside from "Story") is "Inside Story" by Dara Marks, but it's also quite deep, so if that's not your thing...well... Otherwise, highest possible recommendation.
 
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My memory of the book...

My memory of the book...

My memory of the book is that the problem isn't with what McKee has to say; the problem is he's a ponderous, jargon-loving writer. He has good points to make, but you have to wade through a lot of terminology like "the negation of the negation."
 
A book that I recently read and adore upon the strong recommendation of a working writer is William Goldman's Adventures in the Screen Trade. It isn't at all the same kind of work that Story is meant to be but the combination of gossip, instruction and analysis that Goldman delivers is insightful, highly readable and practical, and, it comes from the author of a number of significant, produced screenplays and novels.

The best two hours on screenwriting I ever spent were with raconteur Bobby Moresco and a group of a dozen budding scribblers in an intimate conversation with no holds barred and Moresco, a charmingly open, self-effacing and supportive person, fielding every question and pitch we could come up with. The exhortation to read Goldman came from there.

(Just to hijack my own thread a little.)
 
the mckee book is such a massive examination of structure it's hard for me to return to it as a source of guidance -- which is something I do before writing each script. the greatest "mentor" I've had on my script writing has been William Martell, who posts here from time to time. I got lucky and found his book Action Screenwriting on craigslist for $6. it's out of print and sells used on amazon for about $200. and despite the title, it applies to much more than just the action or thriller genre. He doesn't push a structure, just good working principles. It's concise and inspiring and helps you focus your ideas. He has a series of over a dozen 45pp Blue Books on his web site too that are like expansion chapters for the main book. not only that, you're getting advice from a guy who has sold over 17 screenplays. highly recommended.
 
slondon said:
A book that I recently read and adore upon the strong recommendation of a working writer is William Goldman's Adventures in the Screen Trade. It isn't at all the same kind of work that Story is meant to be but the combination of gossip, instruction and analysis that Goldman delivers is insightful, highly readable and practical, and, it comes from the author of a number of significant, produced screenplays and novels.

The best two hours on screenwriting I ever spent were with raconteur Bobby Moresco and a group of a dozen budding scribblers in an intimate conversation with no holds barred and Moresco, a charmingly open, self-effacing and supportive person, fielding every question and pitch we could come up with. The exhortation to read Goldman came from there.

(Just to hijack my own thread a little.)
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This is probably my favourite book on screenwriting also :D
 
Zak, thank you for that tip. I will try to get my hands on a copy. Looks like the library is the first place to look.
 
I've read his book and taken his seminar but the best exposure to his lessons was in an old "Learning Annex" class he did where he had to boil his seminar down the 3 hours.
It was his most useful tools, and from that experience, I learned the most from Robert McKee.
 
Zak Forsman said:
the greatest "mentor" I've had on my script writing has been William Martell, who posts here from time to time. I got lucky and found his book Action Screenwriting on craigslist for $6. it's out of print and sells used on amazon for about $200. and despite the title, it applies to much more than just the action or thriller genre. He doesn't push a structure, just good working principles. It's concise and inspiring and helps you focus your ideas. He has a series of over a dozen 45pp Blue Books on his web site too that are like expansion chapters for the main book. not only that, you're getting advice from a guy who has sold over 17 screenplays. highly recommended.
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Great. I googled this http://messageboard.donedealpro.com/boards/showthread.php?t=52846

01-23-2010, 05:59 PM #9
wcmartell
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: studio city
Posts: 4,348

Default Re: Copy Of "The Secrets of Action Screenwriting" For Sale
Still working on revisons (and actually worked on them a little today) - then it goes to the (waiting) book agent, then it goes out to publishers, then someone pays me money, then the publishers do what publishers do, then it ends up on the shelves at Barnes & Noble.

And, I only wrote that "write stuff" thing while autographing one book - and that's the one!

- Bill
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bill totolo said:
I've read his book and taken his seminar but the best exposure to his lessons was in an old "Learning Annex" class he did where he had to boil his seminar down the 3 hours.
It was his most useful tools, and from that experience, I learned the most from Robert McKee.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Wish I could have been there. This is just an interview, but he's informative and entertaining and I confess he set the hook in me here: http://bigthink.com/robertmckee#!video_idea_id=19641

I'll read Story with a point of reference now.
 
If you ever get the chance to go to a William Martell seminar i would heavily recommend it. I was lucky enough to 'work' at one of his in London some years back, and he was incredibly entertaining as well as informative. Really great teacher. I'd also recommend Volger and David Freeman's seminars. Volunteer to help out with whoever's running the event-managed to see most of these seminars for no cost.

A book i recently bought i seem to have learnt the most from is Alexander Mackendrick's 'On Film-making'. Not explicitly for screenwriters but there are tons of very clear and concise information. The problem i find with most screenwriting books is that they complicate things. Its not complicated-its just incredibly hard work.
 
ok guys, i just went to the 4 day mckee seminar this weekend in LA. i had read the book years ago, so it was cool to go over it again. he covers all the fundamentals of storytelling, but i think if you're a serious writer you should already kind of already know most of the stuff he covers. i think it would be very good for non writers who want to understand story, like directors, editors, animators, etc. his stuff applies more to features than tv. someone i know suggested it would be good to go with a project that you're working on in mind. but his book or his seminar won't teach you how to write. no book or seminar can. someone i know compared it to going to a seminar on ballet. someone can tell you all about ballet, the history, the technique, but you're not going to be able to do ballet afterwards.
 
Sad but true. I heard Scott Frank in an interview on the SCENE UNSEEN podcast say if you want to learn scriptwriting the best books to read are the classics of literature...you get a better idea of how to tell a story.
 
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