New_Zealand
Veteran
using the Canon 15.5-47mm cine lens I was just wondering is a matte box attach to the lens is good vs one that is attach to the rails? I seem to see a lot of photos of people using the matte box attach to the lens
Mattebox attach ot the lens or rails?
- Thread starter New_Zealand
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morgan_moore
Major Contributor
Surely you want to definitely have the lens on rails unless your camera has PL mount.
One of the joys of such a lens - that needs changing less than a prime and doesnt extend during a zoom - is that you can take the time to put a MB on rails and get everything nice and solid.
IMO thats rails 2 hanging 0
One of the joys of such a lens - that needs changing less than a prime and doesnt extend during a zoom - is that you can take the time to put a MB on rails and get everything nice and solid.
IMO thats rails 2 hanging 0
New_Zealand
Veteran
thanks
Run&Gun
Veteran
Depends... I love rails, not just to support certain lenses, when needed, but also something to grab onto/attach grab points when needed/wanted(like grips). I actually run rails on my real ENG cameras, not for lens support, but just to grab onto. I actually have a sphere on the left by the focus barrel. But you don’t necessarily have to use a matte box that attached to rails (presuming your lenses are fixed/non-rotating front). I have way too many matte boxes, but only two of them mount on rails, both of them are my more serious Arri’s. I usually use an Arri on sit-downs and the like, where weight and bulk isn’t an issue and I may need more light control with the deeper “hood”, larger top flag and additional side flags that they have. Both actually have the option to function as clamp-on’s, but the one is way too heavy and large for that and the other I just feel better with it on rails, too, when I have all the flags on it. My other three are all clamp-on’s. I ran around all weekend with the BT Misfit Atom just clamped on to my 17-120, despite the lens being secured on rails. The Misfit actually weighs less than the stock Canon lens hood.
So, you don’t have to have a MB on rails and most(well, a lot) will function either way. It just depends a lot on weight and size and personal preference.
So, you don’t have to have a MB on rails and most(well, a lot) will function either way. It just depends a lot on weight and size and personal preference.
puredrifting
Major Contributor
Do you use your MBs when you one man band it? WHen you are doing a lot of filter or lens changes? Must just be me, I hate messing with matte boxes, I sold mine because I never used it. For me, matte boxes are an AC thing.
P
PeopleCanFly
Guest
I think it depends on the lens and the situation. I really like holding cameras via the mattebox when shoulder mounted so in that case I need to make sure everything is rock solid; I always go lens AND rails with that setup. For almost any other application if I don't need rails, I probably won't use them. For most interview stuff I do, unless I need a specific filter or to cut down a random flare, I'll forgo it completely.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Well, in my world, I never have an AC ; ) The bulk of my MB use is for sit-downs for light control. I've never been much of a filter guy, outside of some ND and maybe a polarizer(keep thinking about trying some light-grade softening filters, though). So really, 99% of MB use for me is just light control. The big reason I ran around with the Misfit this past weekend was I could quickly flip down the top flag and cover the lens while we were riding around on the golf cart and we were also doing some interviews and it helped keep the sun off the lens in one or two instances. I've also used it a few times lately, shooting some college basketball, because I could tape the players numbers to the back of it where I could easily see them(pulled the flag, it's dangerous in situations like that). Plus, as I said, it's actually lighter weight than the stock hood(not that we're talking about pounds or even really ounces. It's more academic. Lol).
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Fun fact: "rails" is not an industry term. It materialized via the message board/blogosphere sometime in the last decade and the term has stuck in that world, but you won't hear it used on legit sets--they are called "iris rods", or just "rods".
Run&Gun
Veteran
You’re correct Charles, but c’mon... Rods ; )
You know we’re all still 14 in the middle of our heads.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Oh I'm less than 14 and not just in the middle of my head but you know, I never thought of the terms that way for some reason. We have eradicated many of the more intentionally salacious terms and abbreviations used on set (which propriety forbids me from repeating here) but that one never even struck me as funny, even as we still use beaver boards and butt plugs .
I do find it fascinating that the internet age has brought about changes in terms that have been locked in place for years. American DP's calling themselves DoP's....lenses being referred to as glass...color correction becoming grading. All of these are in the past 5-10 years.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Oh, most definitely. One that used to drive one of my the senior CP's crazy and he couldn't stand, was 'Gang Bang', which some would call a 'Media Scrum'. But 'Butt-Plug'(plug on audio transmitter) was one that never really raised an eyebrow with me, either. And lots of grip/lighting terminology that could land people in the hot seat with today's ultra-sensitive social media mobs. I almost posted about this a few months ago(I thought it was a joke, at first), but didn't want to give any publicity to the PC lunatic who started it. Someone started a petition to change/eliminate referring to connections as 'male' and 'female' and also do away with the 'master' and 'slave' identifications (i.e.: master clock).
One of the other terms that I hear frequently used incorrectly, that isn't equipment related, is 'Out of Pocket'. Which means you spent your own money on something. But I almost exclusively hear people now(mostly millennials/younger generation) use the phrase to mean they are unavailable/can't talk or take calls(i.e: I'm going to be out of pocket from 1p-2p while I'm in a meeting). I finally called a producer out on it one day and they kind of looked at me funny, so I asked him to explain it. His explanation was that it meant that you couldn't talk on your cell phone, you know, because you carry your cell phone in your pocket. I weep for society...
rob norton
Veteran
I used to live in Los Angeles and did some work for a production company as a PA. As the producer gave me a tour of their grip truck we came to a black (non chrome) baby c-stand.
He said "this one's called a Gary Coleman - can you guess why?" I said "because it's short and black?" He said "no, only because it's short".
Eric Coughlin
Veteran
I screw the matte box directly to my Canon cine zooms. I find I don't need rail lens support with the Amira's EF locking amount; it's nice and sturdy. I typically use rail lens support with the non-locking EF C300. I use Misfit Matte boxes. If I had a heavier matte box, I may be more inclined to rod mount it. I have a quick release setup for my shoulder mount and have rods on that to attached shape handles to, so having the matte box be separate from the rail frees me up to quickly take the heavy and bulky shoulder mount out of the equation when I want to slim down, particularly for Steadicam, but useful for tripod as well.
Since cinema lenses typically don't come with lens hoods like still lenses often do, I feel matte boxes are necessary for them. I want that extra protection, and unlike protective filters which can offer protection while reducing image quality, matte boxes improve image quality and offer protection. With my L-series lenses, I just about always leave the hoods on.
Since cinema lenses typically don't come with lens hoods like still lenses often do, I feel matte boxes are necessary for them. I want that extra protection, and unlike protective filters which can offer protection while reducing image quality, matte boxes improve image quality and offer protection. With my L-series lenses, I just about always leave the hoods on.
CharlesPapert
Director of Photography
Ooof--you must have blushed. Actually I'm impressed that a producer knew about Gary Coleman's to begin with! Hip guy! There's also a Mickey Rooney (slow dolly move in). Can't think of any other celebrity named things offhand...maybe the Abby Singer (setup) before martini shot).
Imamacuser
Veteran
I clamp my Cinematics matte box to rails, as it doesn't have a lens adapter ring, and it's too heavy for photo lenses and mirrorless camera mounts anyway. I mainly use my matte box when I need a grad ND. I've even used it for landscape photography, as I prefer to avoid post processing my photos.
In reference to Run&Gun, here's one millennial who knows the proper use and meaning of the "Out of Pocket" term. I'm also one of those nerds who carries their iPhone in a belt holster, so the whole iPhone Bendgate didn't affect me. I'm really not a typical millennial, as I've never been a fan of social media, and I always remind people to shoot video horizontally with their phones. People on DPReview called me a Boomer for suggesting that 16:9 is the most logical aspect ratio, as it's natively supported by all devices, but they shot down my reasoning, yet couldn't provide a good reason as to why people can't simply rotate their phones; I presume that in their minds the leverage from rotating a 174 gram phone might break their wrists.
All that to say, not all millennials are clueless, there's a few of us with horse sense.
In reference to Run&Gun, here's one millennial who knows the proper use and meaning of the "Out of Pocket" term. I'm also one of those nerds who carries their iPhone in a belt holster, so the whole iPhone Bendgate didn't affect me. I'm really not a typical millennial, as I've never been a fan of social media, and I always remind people to shoot video horizontally with their phones. People on DPReview called me a Boomer for suggesting that 16:9 is the most logical aspect ratio, as it's natively supported by all devices, but they shot down my reasoning, yet couldn't provide a good reason as to why people can't simply rotate their phones; I presume that in their minds the leverage from rotating a 174 gram phone might break their wrists.
All that to say, not all millennials are clueless, there's a few of us with horse sense.
Run&Gun
Veteran
Preach it. We need to infiltrate you into their collective and spread some more common sense like that.