hi everyone,im going to be shooting a martial arts training video soon,its going to be in a martial arts studio.the thing is im new to this kind of subject,how do you think i sould light the trianer? also what martial arts video would you recomend me to watch to get a better idea of this? thank you ; )
martial arts trianing video?
- Thread starter john818
- Start date
I shot a martial arts documentary in a dojo last week. We shot on a Canon XL1s and some of it was shot of a steadicam.
If you are filming a bunch of fighters moving around on a mat, it's going to be very difficult moving lights - you can't ask these guys to stop if you want to change a lighting set-up. Depends on how many camera set-ups you're doing. We had 3 tripod set-ups which we alternated from and one steadicam position, where we just roamed around the mat for that position. We were all over the place. If you're filming from only one camera position, you could get away with lights. I wouldn't use lights, I would just get the colour balance and aperture setting suitable for your situation and use that.
We also had a big problem with manual focus, the more the fighters moved, the more they went out of focus, and they do move fast! I'd recommend shooting in auto focus. Manual focus worked initially when we focussed up on one of the trainers, but then when we began shooting etc, the camera got confused on which person to focus on because there were so many guys in the room moving about. So shoot on auto focus. Filming martial arts is recording a live venue etc, so having manual focus may not be a neccesity in this situation.
Also watch the colour balance. The room was lit by fluorescent lights and the camera got confused by this as it didn't have a setting for that sort of light. Run some camera tests. The best way to get ideas etc, is to sit in on a few of their sessions. Then you will know exactly what they will do on a given training night. They tend to stick to a routine, so get to know what they do.
moonlitnite
Well-known member
Hi John,
I've never done a martial arts training video so my advise is worth exactly what it costs ;--)
Certainy RC brings up good points, especially the focus issues. Of course, unlike his documentary, you should have a lot more control doing a training video. So you can setup camera/s and lights to choreograph the best angles. I assume your objectives is both inspire, educate and perhaps entertain the audience. Whatever your objectives, that will be a prime factor in setting up your cameras and lighting - let's discuss...
Let's say your target audience has a national/global reach for perhaps an upper-intermediate, maybe a brown belt/Sankyu. First off, I'd research what's available in the marketplace as Advanced Wado Ryu Karate. I'd carefully observe what works well/poorly about the DVD (note - it's burned Region 2). Here's their write-up and you can google something like "martial arts dvd" for lots more:
Description:
This DVD is aimed at the student that has already been Training and Graded in Wado Ryu Karate to the Intermediate Level - Volume 2 of the "Karate Master Class Series". It is a comprehensive instructional guide to one of the more popular Martial Arts and is brought to you by Karate Master Doug James 7th Dan Black Belt, Chojinkai Karate Founder-Chief Instructor and WKF World Qualified Referee. Having started Karate Training in the 1960's he is highly regarded as one of Europe's Top Professional Instructors - the knowledge and information given to you in this programme will be an essential asset to your progress. This DVD will take you through all the techniques and requirements that will take you to Purple belt 4th Kyu through to Brown belt 2nd Kyu: Detailed explanations and demonstrations of the following are included in this DVD: 3 Advanced Combination Punch & Kicking Techniques, Pre-Arranged Fighting Techniques - 11 Full Ippon Gumite 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12. Advanced Ippon Gumite 1,3,5,7,9,11. Ohyu Gumite 1-5, Kihon Gumite 1,2,3,4. Basic Forms - Pinan Kata 1-4 plus Pinan Godan, Plus Advanced Forms - Ku Shanku & Nai Hanchi, all shown with Bunkai - explanation of technique
I assume you've got similar topics, objectives and goals. Hopefully, you've given some thoughts how these "decompose" to a shot list. I'd guess for some shots, one camera is sufficient while for other shots two cameras would be best (or doing a retake with one camera). You'll want to think about when it makes sense to use wide, medium, and close-ups (as hand work shown here). And for some shots, I'd certainly consider using a wide angle or fish-eye lens. FYI - checkout this clip and notice the benefit of shots that employ interesting and varied camera angles versus static shots.
I notice some companies have a wide range of martial art DVDs.
On YouTube, you can certainly find examples of so-so video like this one. You don't want to get so tight the camera can't keep up with the action, although here it's more a problem of the tripod and poor cameraman technique. Some things should be obvious like background lighting problems - I assume you wouldn't make this mistake. It would be a shame to have excellent video material like this but have insufficient lighting and camera angles that miss important action sequences. I'd also try to remove background clutter if at all possible, perhaps draping the set with muslim cloth as a backdrop if necessary.
IMHO, many martial art videographers would improve by raising their camera up so they look down on the subject/s and are generally far enough away to quickly zoom from wide to closeup shots when appropriate. Here's a clip that shows lots of sequences - study the shots you like best and why others aren't nearly as effective.
Another important area to consider before shooting is what will happen in the editing phase. Will you use slow motion effects, shot retakes, background music, etc? Here's an example of how these effects help make martial arts action come to life.
And for comedy effect, it's always fun to consider outtakes or something funny like this
Finally, even if you've got poor lights, funky video, etc, you can always produce a winner if you've got someone like Steve Terada!
Good luck, Michael
P.S. I'd keep the iris open as much as possible and shutter 60+ FPS - it may give you a wide depth of field but obviously capturing action is paramount (pun intended), especially if you'll be generating slow-mo in post. And as for supplemental lighting, I'd restrict softbox lighting, fill, etc for closeup shots. For most action shots, I'd probably go with hard lights bounced of umbrellas - trying to cover a fairly large area without worrying about motivated lights. You might also consider gels but could tweak with color in post.
I've never done a martial arts training video so my advise is worth exactly what it costs ;--)
Certainy RC brings up good points, especially the focus issues. Of course, unlike his documentary, you should have a lot more control doing a training video. So you can setup camera/s and lights to choreograph the best angles. I assume your objectives is both inspire, educate and perhaps entertain the audience. Whatever your objectives, that will be a prime factor in setting up your cameras and lighting - let's discuss...
Let's say your target audience has a national/global reach for perhaps an upper-intermediate, maybe a brown belt/Sankyu. First off, I'd research what's available in the marketplace as Advanced Wado Ryu Karate. I'd carefully observe what works well/poorly about the DVD (note - it's burned Region 2). Here's their write-up and you can google something like "martial arts dvd" for lots more:
Description:
This DVD is aimed at the student that has already been Training and Graded in Wado Ryu Karate to the Intermediate Level - Volume 2 of the "Karate Master Class Series". It is a comprehensive instructional guide to one of the more popular Martial Arts and is brought to you by Karate Master Doug James 7th Dan Black Belt, Chojinkai Karate Founder-Chief Instructor and WKF World Qualified Referee. Having started Karate Training in the 1960's he is highly regarded as one of Europe's Top Professional Instructors - the knowledge and information given to you in this programme will be an essential asset to your progress. This DVD will take you through all the techniques and requirements that will take you to Purple belt 4th Kyu through to Brown belt 2nd Kyu: Detailed explanations and demonstrations of the following are included in this DVD: 3 Advanced Combination Punch & Kicking Techniques, Pre-Arranged Fighting Techniques - 11 Full Ippon Gumite 1,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12. Advanced Ippon Gumite 1,3,5,7,9,11. Ohyu Gumite 1-5, Kihon Gumite 1,2,3,4. Basic Forms - Pinan Kata 1-4 plus Pinan Godan, Plus Advanced Forms - Ku Shanku & Nai Hanchi, all shown with Bunkai - explanation of technique
I assume you've got similar topics, objectives and goals. Hopefully, you've given some thoughts how these "decompose" to a shot list. I'd guess for some shots, one camera is sufficient while for other shots two cameras would be best (or doing a retake with one camera). You'll want to think about when it makes sense to use wide, medium, and close-ups (as hand work shown here). And for some shots, I'd certainly consider using a wide angle or fish-eye lens. FYI - checkout this clip and notice the benefit of shots that employ interesting and varied camera angles versus static shots.
I notice some companies have a wide range of martial art DVDs.
On YouTube, you can certainly find examples of so-so video like this one. You don't want to get so tight the camera can't keep up with the action, although here it's more a problem of the tripod and poor cameraman technique. Some things should be obvious like background lighting problems - I assume you wouldn't make this mistake. It would be a shame to have excellent video material like this but have insufficient lighting and camera angles that miss important action sequences. I'd also try to remove background clutter if at all possible, perhaps draping the set with muslim cloth as a backdrop if necessary.
IMHO, many martial art videographers would improve by raising their camera up so they look down on the subject/s and are generally far enough away to quickly zoom from wide to closeup shots when appropriate. Here's a clip that shows lots of sequences - study the shots you like best and why others aren't nearly as effective.
Another important area to consider before shooting is what will happen in the editing phase. Will you use slow motion effects, shot retakes, background music, etc? Here's an example of how these effects help make martial arts action come to life.
And for comedy effect, it's always fun to consider outtakes or something funny like this
Finally, even if you've got poor lights, funky video, etc, you can always produce a winner if you've got someone like Steve Terada!
Good luck, Michael
P.S. I'd keep the iris open as much as possible and shutter 60+ FPS - it may give you a wide depth of field but obviously capturing action is paramount (pun intended), especially if you'll be generating slow-mo in post. And as for supplemental lighting, I'd restrict softbox lighting, fill, etc for closeup shots. For most action shots, I'd probably go with hard lights bounced of umbrellas - trying to cover a fairly large area without worrying about motivated lights. You might also consider gels but could tweak with color in post.
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Aaron Little
Member
moonlitnite - That was a very thought out and etailed post. As a martial arts instructor and as a videoproducer I really enjoyed the content and the links. Thanks.
SilverWolf
Veteran
I've been training in martial arts since I was a little kid and have also done some instructional videos.
When making an instructional video for martial arts you generally want to have a demostration then explanation. Depending upon which art is actually being instructed the formula would vary slightly but not by much.
Most martial arts have some type of form or set of moves. Let's use karate for instance.
You might take one Kata and use that as the basis for your video. So in the beginning you might demonstrate the entire kata for the viewers. This helps in two ways:
1. People starting can see what the end product should look like
2. People that have finished can go back and practice it all together by watching the instructor.
Next you would break up the kata into the individual moves and have those set as sub-sections. For instance the different : Stances, Punches , Blocks, Etc
Then in each sub- section you would demonstrate the move in the air , then show it's practical application on someone, then dissect the move for the viewer.
Use at least 2 cameras if you can to show closeup of hand and foot positions that way everything is shown and explained
Here is a sample of a very brief instructional clip that I did
http://www.expertvillage.com/interviews/kenpo.htm
When making an instructional video for martial arts you generally want to have a demostration then explanation. Depending upon which art is actually being instructed the formula would vary slightly but not by much.
Most martial arts have some type of form or set of moves. Let's use karate for instance.
You might take one Kata and use that as the basis for your video. So in the beginning you might demonstrate the entire kata for the viewers. This helps in two ways:
1. People starting can see what the end product should look like
2. People that have finished can go back and practice it all together by watching the instructor.
Next you would break up the kata into the individual moves and have those set as sub-sections. For instance the different : Stances, Punches , Blocks, Etc
Then in each sub- section you would demonstrate the move in the air , then show it's practical application on someone, then dissect the move for the viewer.
Use at least 2 cameras if you can to show closeup of hand and foot positions that way everything is shown and explained
Here is a sample of a very brief instructional clip that I did
http://www.expertvillage.com/interviews/kenpo.htm
In terms of an example to watch, you could do worse than watching this one of Morio Higaonna of Goju-Ryu (done by Tsunami video):
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Training-Karate-Tsunami-Higaonna/dp/6305435197
In addition to the fine recommendations above, I would also emphasize that shooting a training video is a whole different animal than shooting a documentary or event video.
Some martial arts instructors don't get this. They need to understand that a lot of planning, scripting, shooting from different angles, retakes, etc. needs to be done in order to have a good result.
Prepare the area you're shooting. This includes making shure your background is a different color from the uniforms they're wearing, and the mats a different color from both. Also sound deadening the space as much as possible (even if you're planning on using a lot of VO). Nothing screams amateur as much as a lot of echoes.
Consider using different color gi (uniforms) for the instructor and the one he's demonstrating with, even if this usually isn't done. This makes it easier for those watching to see who is doing what.
http://www.amazon.com/Power-Training-Karate-Tsunami-Higaonna/dp/6305435197
In addition to the fine recommendations above, I would also emphasize that shooting a training video is a whole different animal than shooting a documentary or event video.
Some martial arts instructors don't get this. They need to understand that a lot of planning, scripting, shooting from different angles, retakes, etc. needs to be done in order to have a good result.
Prepare the area you're shooting. This includes making shure your background is a different color from the uniforms they're wearing, and the mats a different color from both. Also sound deadening the space as much as possible (even if you're planning on using a lot of VO). Nothing screams amateur as much as a lot of echoes.
Consider using different color gi (uniforms) for the instructor and the one he's demonstrating with, even if this usually isn't done. This makes it easier for those watching to see who is doing what.
wow thanks guys for puting the time to help,do you think i should use any pro lights or should i just make sure there is light on the subject? also how do you think i should record the audio,should i should i put a wireless mic on them or use a boom mic,but i dont got a boom op.
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Well, yes, first I would ensure that there was light on the subject. But ideally I would not use just flat light, but would use some instruments from either side to lend a little depth to the people (especially as there gi are most commonly white, or at least monochrome).
Without a boom op, I would go for the wireless option.
Without a boom op, I would go for the wireless option.
moonlitnite
Well-known member
You haven't told us much so the question about audio is a difficult question. If you're simply taking video of students, you don't really need wireless mics. If you have an instructor doing interactive narrative, then yes, you'd want to mic him/her. But then again, you could also do voice-over commentary in post so without knowing what you're up to, we're simply guessing. If you're seriously looking for answers, please tell us about your goals/objectives/theme/script/target audience/etc.
Yes, as mentioned above good lighting is important - if you looked at the video links above, you should have a good feel what works (and doesn't work).
im not to clear either,im going to meet with sandy,the one thats puting together everything.all i know is that they want it edited and burned on dvd.i think they want to distrebute it.there is going to be an instructor explaining everything in a martial arts studio and ive got to record it lol
moonlitnite
Well-known member
Hey John, we all sympathize with you - been there, own that tee shirt! As the saying goes, those who don't set targets seldom hit them. It suprising how often we're seduced into low-ball jobs with other abdicating managementand directing control. That's not always bad if indeed it's over their head and you're up to the task.
Then it's up to you to identify the market, target audience/penetration, competition, value proposition, SWOT (Strengths, Weakness, Opportunities, Threats), cost breakdown, P/L, payback, distribution channels, etc. Nothing to worry about - we're all experts here and can do this in our spare time <wink>
Have fun, Michael