Making your first film - steps to think about

H

hollisterb

New member
Hi guys, new here and need some help and advice with quite a few things. Seems like a cool forum so I decided to join up and see what I can find out!

I studied Film, nothing serious to be honest in College as one of my "modules" and I always had some ideas but never did anything about it. I'm still in college but don't do anything related to film anymore.

Anyways I want to finally do what I've wanted to do for many years and try my hand at possibly a short film - something very small and simple but what I feel is a good story. I've got some people also for when it comes to the acting part of the main roles.

My question is - in terms of money - what amount is roughly needed? What am I looking at to invest in?

I was even thinking of the famous Blair Witch Project, remember how they just did it all on a camcorder. Ok I don't want to do that because my story can't be told from that perspective but just to show it can be done on a really small budget.

I'm thinking about basic things I need to take into consideration from the start -

So I'm going to need a camera - what kind of pricing am I looking at, what kind of budgets of cams are there that will do a good job?

What happens, when in a scene we need someone of a specific demographic? How do we find? - Ok that could be a dumb question because it's like saying we can just ask someone's father/mother if they will do a 5 minute scene for us etc - but I'm just trying to break it down

What happens when maybe we need to shoot in a specific location? - Say a High School? - Go to the given head department of that place and ask can it be used for filming for so and so

My questions are very much aimed at the grassroots - the first movie or short film you make - I'm looking at it from that angle.

I did one a year back as part of my college team but I want to scrap what I learnt there and just do it from scratch myself and see how others have done it.

Any advice will be appreciated

I was just reading some article, and I've know this for a while and I'm sure you all agree -

"Both production and post-production costs have been significantly lowered; today, the hardware and software for post-production can be installed in a commodity-based personal computer. Technologies such as DVD, FireWire connections and professional-level non-linear editing system software make movie-making relatively inexpensive."

Look forward to any replies/thoughts
 
Hi my friend.

Big questions here and lots of potential answers.... (Sorry about this post, there's too much stuff to cover in a single post and hey, there are some talented people here that will have much better things to say, so stay tuned for them!)

OK. I presume we're talking about features here. First -- it is recommended...not essential but highly recommended you shoot a bunch of short films. See how people respond, see how the process comes together for you.

Shooting a short film is an entirely different process to shooting a feature. Personally, I would not spend more than "lose change" on a short film. Okay maybe a bit more but you get the idea. I'm not one of those guys that will spend $5k on a short film. I look at my film commission website the other day, they have funding plans for short films for like $30k. And I'm thinking, wait...What? Who the hell would spend $30k on a short film...who watches short films other than filmmakers?? Okay maybe some people do, but man, I could make a feature with $30k!!! When I think short film I think -- Keep it simple, tell a good story, keep it under 10 minutes (easier to program for festivals)....don't skimp on sound, don't skimp on score or acting, but hey, you can do it with a low budget and actual SKILL.

So I say, get a script, or write one - keep it under 10 pages, make it simple with a beginning middle and an end, a solid, no bullshi* story. Show yourself you can do it, then you can shoot a feature. You don't need a lot of money to do that.

Now when it comes to a feature.

There are many, many, many ways to go about it. Some people spend a few hundred thousand on their first "low budget" film, some people spend "nothing", some people spend somewhere in between...it's so hard to say. It depends on the type of story you want to tell, and what you feel right about.

Personally I like the Rodriguez approach. He shot "El mariachi" for $7,000....ON FILM. A feature film. A freakin' great piece of work at that. A few lights, a 45 page script...turned it into a real motion picture. Kevin Smith did clerks for $25k or somewhere around there...shot for 25 days I think.... while he was working as a Clerk.

Been some great examples here at DVXUSER. I recommend The Corrado thread in user films and A lonely place for dying. Oh, and don't forget Deuce of spades as well. All in the User films section. Feature blogs here with massive threads outlining a lot of the good stuff. More importantly, it's people who are actually doing it instead of sitting here like me waiting to do it!

Soak all this stuff up because hell, you'll need it. Read "Rebel without a crew" for Rodriguez's story. Inspiring read.

You CAN make a movie with a low budget. But you still have to be really careful about what you do and know what you're going to do with the film.

For your first feature keep it SIMPLE. Shoot it around a handful of easy to get to locations. Use things you have. Find things you have access to that other people don't and use those things. Use all your selling points.

Keep it short. 90 minutes is a great length for a first feature film IMO. Long enough to be a real feature and short enough so it's in and out, no wasting time. Easier to shoot 90 pages than 120.

Pre production

Know your film. Have a good script. Don't shoot a frame until you have a good script. You will be so sorry for it later if you f*ck up the script, because that could be why your movie doesn't sell. You can get away with camera mistakes if the story is good, but you're out the window if your story sucks. So either get a damn good writer or slave away at 100 drafts until you have a script in your hands that you could've sworn Tarrantino himself wrote. Keep it short. 90 pages. 90 seems nice to read, too....when people see 100 pages they freak out. When they see 90 they think, hey, nice and quick. I'll read it now!

Tell people about your story...see how they respond. Do they want to see that movie? yes? no? "A half man half lion sits on a bookcase in the amazon rainforest and ponders the world around him"....okay don't make that film....

Get people to read it. People you trust. PAY a script doctor/reader to check it out. There's readers around that do it cheap, it's worth your while. Do it.

Genres...

Remember. You are on a budget. So don't make something too crazy. But don't make a drama unless you have a freakin' gold script. You have to consider what you want to do...do you want to make money? sell it to a distributor? Launch your career into Hollywood?

- Horror films are easier to sell as an unknown with unknown cast because they are more about the experience. People will see a horror film without A listers in them but they might not see a drama or comedy with a no-name in it.

Though if you have a great comedy film, go with it. Action is fun too because it involves the audience. Drama is harder to sell as a no name, as far as I know. Not impossible, just harder. Hey - if you want to do drama, DO DRAMA and kick ass!

Cast cast cast

Okay so you've got your great script. Cast wrong and you're f*cked already. Don't use your friend unless he is an actor. Don't cast randoms. Pull a casting call. Even in a small town or country or whatever -- you can pull actors. Ones that will work cheap. Find people right for the roles. Think about what the audience will be thinking when they see that person. Be smart. Get a casting director if you can. Depends on your budget etc but...something to consider.

You could write all day on casting and still not even touch on it. But yeah. CAST!

You mentioned something about asking someones mother or something to do a scene....BAD freakin' idea. Trust me, it's usually horrible. Unless you audition them, and they are actually GOOD (unlikely if they're not an actor with no screen exp) then please please please save yourself a lot of hassle and death threats and just cast properly.

Camera, lights, etc.

This varies. If you're not a DP, or don't have much experience behind the camera, you want a DP. Hell, you want one anyway, but yeah, sometimes you can't afford it. Or find the right person, or whatever. If you have a DP they will probably have their own camera and rig. And probably some lights too!

Something like the HVX100 with an adaptor will give you a very nice result and that combination has been used for many of the features here. If you can afford it you could look into the Red camera, or FILM! 16mm maybe. Depends on your budget, your DP, etc.

You mentioned the blair witch. This is a very specific kind of movie. Yeah - you can shoot on anything within reason but know your audience. The majority of films that look like the Blair witch don't see the light of day. That's not something that can be done too many times.

But you DON'T need the worlds most expensive camera to shoot the movie.

Light it. Light your film with what you can get. Get yourself a reflector, get some lights. You don't need a truck but lighting is essential. This is where a DP will save your life.

Locations

With your first feature you really want to stick to places you can get to without too much trouble. Keep it simple. Find a place you can set big parts of the film. If you want to set it in a High school, ask around. This usually isn't too hard especially if you have connections with the school. Just keep in mind schools aren't easy to shoot in, in terms of lighting, sound, etc. Lots of halls (perfect for bad audio) and hard places to light.

But yeah - don't skimp on locations, find places that tell your story.

With that in mind...

Production design, quality, etc.

This is the thing that usually gives away low budget films. Seriously some people don't even BOTHER on this. In fact, go to a film festival, go online, count the number of short films or low budget features with really good production design...good looking sets...clothing...etc.

Sure, budgets...yeah. So again, shoot with what you have. Don't make your first feature something that calls for lots of big sets...because you will have to dress those sets and make them look good. Nobody wants to look at white walls behind your character unless you have a damn good reason why the walls are like that.

Find people to help you. You don't have to do it yourself. Get people on your side. The more time you spend in pre production on this, the better. You can NEVER spend too much time in pre production. Anyone that says that is producing films on the level of the Godfather, and I have never seen an independent film on that level. (And I'm talking things that can done on low budgets here people)

Post

Things to consider about post production...

- Don't skimp on post audio. Get someone to mix it if you have no clue. People will do it free or cheap for experience. Find those people. Spend a lot of time in audio...this will make or break your film.

- DON'T skimp on score. Don't skimp on score. yes I said it twice because everyones does and it shows. If your film is not a film that calls for a musical score then don't skimp on songs...whatever it is - don't do a cheap shot. Composers out there do work for credits on good stuff. They do write songs for a good cause. And no, it does not have to suck! Again, score will make or break your film.

-Spend time learning how to color correct, things like that will make your film look a lot better.

I could probably think of 100 things to put here but It's getting late and some DVXUsers will have some great ideas for you so uh...

Budget

You have to decide this yourself. There is no one budget to rule them all. It comes down to what you can do and what you need. Rodriguez made El mariachi for $7k. he wrote it. He shot it. He cut it. If you are a talented multi tasker you will save yourself money too.

Things to consider for your budget...

- Cast. Pay 'em. It'll be hard to find cast who can work for 20+ days for free. Unlikely. Factor this in. On casting...if you are aiming to sell this thing having a name actor in it for a day or two (as a small cameo somewhere) may help sell it. Several DVXusers have gone on this route. Check out Corrado, A lonely place for dying for in depth blogs.

-Crew. You need sound. You need a DP...a camera...etc. You need an assistant, you need help! Keep it small but concise. Make sure you will be covered on set. the More directing and less producing you do, the better your shoot will go.

-Post...how much do you need to edit, score, etc. Are you a skilled editor? Do you have a friend who is? Will you need film processing or are you on digital? Who will mix it? etc. etc. etc. etc.

-Gear - lights, sound gear, props, design, etc. What do you need to shoot every single scene?

+ 100000 other things. But factor it in. You can do it cheap. You can do a film very cheap if you know what you're doing, have a good crew and cast. For example, if you have a camera, or a DP willing to work on it as a labour of love, there's a lot of your budget saved. You could shoot on weekends over the period of months instead of shooting straight 20 days and get a lot of cast to work cheap or free this way....especially if it's a good script. (Which it is, right!!! It's the best script since Reservoir...)

Now look. This is just some late night mumbling thoughts to get you in the right direction. Go check out the Corrado thread etc like I mentioned earlier. That's hundreds of pages by a dude who ACTUALLY shot and sold a movie. I'm just a young gun who is shooting short films for a few more years until I am ready to do my feature. So don't take what I say as the only way.

You will find out there are ways to do everything and ways to break those ways. Do what you want, and have fun, that's important.

Just know that - you CAN make a good film, you CAN sell it. Or maybe you don't want to sell it, maybe you're making it for the festivals, maybe you'll get some interest, offers, anything can happen.

Make a good movie and things will happen. There's no other trick to it. The real trick is...making a damn good movie. Ask yourself....would I WANT to watch this movie?

Don't be put off by the amount of stuff you have to do. KNOW that you have to be prepared. Some people will tell you that you have to have this, and that, and a crew this size, and a budget this amount...blah.....And that's fine....but you do what you want. After all, it's your movie. Telling a good story is the most important thing. Be visual. Be a storyteller. Be a freakin' visionary. Take on the world.

Good luck.
 
Last edited:
You could spend a week or so reading DVXuser. You will learn a lot just doing that.

Get the camera you can afford. DVX100. HV20. HV30. Try to get something 24p.

Then my advice is just start shooting. Make a short film. You can only read so much. It is just best to do it and learn that way.

I do most of the work myself since I have no budget. You can find actors and crew to work for free. Just ask people if you can use a location. I have had no one turn me down yet and no one has ask for money
 
Hey Chris/Zim

Chris, dude - where do I start? Thank you for all that, really helpful. I've bookmarked this page coz of what you wrote. Will use it as a reference point.

I agree with many stuff you say - common sense but needs to be told. Such as when you said about dressing up locations, no one wants to see some empty wall behind the chick

I know you said drama is the hardest but that's what I was thinking of! - I've got a story in mind which is a love story I want to tell on the screen/video

I'm going to look for that Mariachi stuff you wrote - never heard of it

With short film, I don't think I could my story in 10 minutes...I'd like at least 45 minutes to be able to show it.
 
Someone buy Chris a beer! That was probable one of the best (and longest posts) I have ever seen here on DVX.

HollisterB, if I might throw my 2 pennies in, start with the story/script itself. What are you going to be shooting? You can have all the equipment in the world, but have a bad script, and it will be a waste (other than for experience).

Dial your story in. I do a bit of work for indie's and get asked to help out pro bono. The first thing I ask to see is the script. If it is poorly written or non-existent, I decline. If you ask people to work for/with you on the cheap or for free, you have to convince them some other way to do it. I work on Lo/No's only if I see that the film has promise and they have a plan for the film. And the script is the first tangible way for me to see for myself if the film has promise.

Another thing, and this is not to discourage you at all, I think jumping into a feature with no experience is an extremely daunting task. Start on a few shorts, learn the art of film-making on them. A feature is a huge investment in time and money, and you want it to be the best you can. Make your basic mistakes on the shorts, learn from them, then apply that knowledge on the feature. You can really learn a lot from doing a quick 5 min. short. Like how much time it really takes behind the scenes, budgeting, equipment needs, etc. One of the shorts I have worked on (award winning), took 4 days to shoot for a final cut of 6 mins. Another took 2 weeks, and one took just 4 hours. The list goes on.

Lastly, Don't lose sight of your realistic goals, it is too easy to get ungrounded in reality. If there is one "magic shot" you "have to have", but cannot afford to get it, move on. Save it for another project when you can get it. Or find another way to do it.

Have fun, either way! (Most Important!!!!!!!)
 
Last edited:
Thanks Doc - In terms of Scripts - is there examples online, maybe short/briefs or something as to what is a good script? Using examples infront of you, for me has always proved helpful in anything. From essays at college to all sorts of things.
 
Your first few films are going to be bad. I'd save your money and script (if it is actually good) until you get the really bad shorts out of your system so you will realize where your experience is lacking. If in these bad shorts you realize that your audio is terrible, you will know where to devote more time. If you didn't shoot enough coverage, or you shot too much, you will know how to fix that the next time. Etc.
 
There are a bunch here, in the scriptwriting section, or there are a bunch online. I can't think where off the top of my head, but then I am not a writer. I am a Shooter/Actor/Stunt Coordinator, so I just read what is handed to me.

Scriptwriting is one of those arts that I cannot do well. But give an action or fight sequence, I am all over it. Or tell me what framing style you want, I got it. You need an actor, I love my craft. But I know my current limitations and what I excel at. I am a KATN (Kick As*, Take Names) sound guy (with a degree in it), but I am not passionate about sound anymore.

Seeing how you are new to filmmaking, you don't know those areas you love and are good at, yet. That takes time. I call it "finding your niche". So have as much fun in all areas possible, learn everything you can about each craft.
 
Last edited:
Drew Ott said:
Your first few films are going to be bad. I'd save your money and script (if it is actually good) until you get the really bad shorts out of your system so you will realize where your experience is lacking. If in these bad shorts you realize that your audio is terrible, you will know where to devote more time. If you didn't shoot enough coverage, or you shot too much, you will know how to fix that the next time. Etc.
Click to expand...
Drew is right on the money.

Everyone learns at a different rate but there's a bunch of things to grasp along the way. I've made 6 or so short films and I'm still far from ready for a film with a real budget behind it. Of course I only do this as a hobby and without much of a crew so your mileage may vary. If you get a talented crew your work will already be ahead of the curve.

Make some short films and sharpen your skills.

Good luck!

MAH
 
Hmm thanks for this guys. I'm 25, and I really wish I had taken this natural instinct or interest of mine earlier when I was 18.

Anyways what I'm thinking of doing first is - I actually have a good friend of mine who produces music and know a girl who sings really well. So we are trying to come up with a beat/idea for a song - a love song.

I already have the tune and direction in mind then I want to shoot, say a 3 minute video for the given song. Might start like that.

I'm not really good with short films - I've seen a few online, and it's cool but it's very fast and to the point. I can't see how one can really tell a story in a short film. Say a story about two people meeting each other etc

It's always in the moment - the experience - the adrenaline - all in one 10 minute short film.
 
hollisterb said:
I'm not really good with short films - I've seen a few online, and it's cool but it's very fast and to the point. I can't see how one can really tell a story in a short film. Say a story about two people meeting each other etc

It's always in the moment - the experience - the adrenaline - all in one 10 minute short film.
Click to expand...
It teaches you proper use of your screen time. I've seen great commercials that can bring someone to tears in 30 seconds.

My point is this... learn how to tell a story within 5 to 10 minutes. If you can't do that you won't fair any better with a Feature and all the time in the world. If you don't capture your audience within the first 5 or 10 minute they will stop watching.

I'm now at the point where I want to try a much longer short before I move on to my first Feature. If I can captivate an audience for 15 minutes I might be ready.

MAH
 
Yea - Drew has a good point.

You learn with experience. Just keep making films and figure out your own mistakes, and also, you're goods. (what you did good in the final film)

Some things to keep in mind after you complete your film..

I have made 6 short films, and I have found that story/filming/directing get better each time. Like I said, experience!

I've been wanting to do a feature, but I'm not sure if I'm ready.

Everyone has their own comfort level as well as to what they want to to produce!

Edit- Mike, I'm with you. I want to move from my 5-6 minute short films, up to a 15-20......After that, I'll be ready for the feature.

Robbie
 
hollisterb said:
I'm not really good with short films - I've seen a few online, and it's cool but it's very fast and to the point. I can't see how one can really tell a story in a short film. Say a story about two people meeting each other etc

It's always in the moment - the experience - the adrenaline - all in one 10 minute short film.
Click to expand...

What Anthony mentioned is right, you can tell a story in just 30 seconds if you need to.

But think of it this way. Often people look at a short film and think "well if I had enough time, like say a feature film, or a 44 minute show, I could tell a proper story" HOWEVER, you should think of it like this "every single scene, every single moment in a larger film is a story in itself. It has a begining, middle, end, and it engages and reveals character." And with this in mind, a short film should come natural.

Now feature films take advantage of the first 15-30 minutes to help reveal character, and this is where it's tricky for a short film. Now the thing is, no matter what, you should reveal character through conflict and as the story moves, never put the story on pause just to reveal character. This isn't done in big feature films (or shouldn't be), and doesn't need to be done in a short film.

So simply put, think of a conflict, have the character engage in the conflict, and resolve it. All the while reveal character through actions. This can easily be done for a 30 second commercial, so a 3 minute film should be no problem.

Heck ,I actually find I have trouble writing long pieces, I always want to shorten things.
 
Hey hollisterb.... for a start you could enter Questfest. Just get with your buddies and come up with something shoot edit and learn. In the begining realize that you have a lot to learn so make it fun.
Make something that impresses people with the limited experience and equipment you have.
Learn to see your vision If you cannot see, hear, feel what you are trying to do on video you really have nothing to shoot for. Where are you located there are a bunch of DVXusers shooting out there and I am sure they would be glad to help you you even if it is just be on set and see how its done.

Also check out this link http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=137087 its the 24diary in the user film section a lot of good info

Good Luck and Happy Shooting
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top