Well, given that successful filmmaking is 50% drive/endurance and 50% buzz, seems like all it will take is a bit of heat on a dvxuser project or filmmaker to get Hollywood to notice. (I didn't even mention the talent % since it seems to take a back seat to the other two factors (Uwe Boll much?), and there are several filmmakers here with more than enough talent).
Making Movies Risky - Less than .1% Succeed
- Thread starter jls4
- Start date
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
The reason making money is so important is obviously so that you can continue to make film after film. Without high budgets, it's very hard to make better and better movies, so obviously even big directors worry about their name going downhill and not being able to direct the projects they want.
jls4
Veteran
At this point - to be honest - the main "Hollywood" I'm concerned about is "Hollywood Video" (Blockbuster for those who don't have it)
I agree with making more and more money, but I've come to the realization in my life that many of us - heck most of us will never see the pearly streets of "HOLLE-WOOOOOOD" but we can almost all see the greatness of the Video Market and become happy doing so. I mean if you can make $150K in your hometown going straight to video, what's the big deal? You still may get HBO and still will have residual pay.
It's not giving up - it's just saying there is more than one option.
I agree with making more and more money, but I've come to the realization in my life that many of us - heck most of us will never see the pearly streets of "HOLLE-WOOOOOOD" but we can almost all see the greatness of the Video Market and become happy doing so. I mean if you can make $150K in your hometown going straight to video, what's the big deal? You still may get HBO and still will have residual pay.
It's not giving up - it's just saying there is more than one option.
Richard J. Johnson
Joystick Member
You can be successful and not direct big budget hollywood features. the definition of success is a relative one. I am not rich, but I do okay, I did'nt get caught up in the streets, which is real easy to do coming from whrere I do, And I do a damn good job raising my babies. So I am successful In my opinion. I would not consider myself a successful film maker yet but when I do it may not be by hollywood standards. Even though I would love for it to be. You can make a decent living going straight to video. I know plenty of people that live real good doing urban docs and indie film. And most of them are terrible.
Ted Spencer
Veteran
Not that I would aspire to such mediocrity (or worse) but that's an interesting fact. Could you elaborate on it a bit more?
Thanks
Richard J. Johnson
Joystick Member
Dirty Game (not Bad)
Charm City (Poop)
Raeful Edmonds Doc (this one was actually good)
the Smack DVD's (Poop)
the Hood dvd series (Poop)
Shottas (Poop-yet a lot of my friends love this film)
He can Get it. (Not bad)
Any Master P/No Limit film
Any Cash Money Film
and many, many, more
Some of these are horrendous but seem to be profitable. They are in every hood clothing store, record shop, they advertise in the source, King, Vibe, Don Diva, etc. There is nothing wrong with hood, I grew up in one. but some of the "directors" I know in this part of the game only do Street themed Drug dealer docs or street themed drug dealer narratives and don't know the first thing about a camera, blocking, camera movements, lighting, audio etc. But damn if people don't buy the product. I can't knock them, they get the job done and they make money. Watching these type of films made me want to direct my own. And I used the money I made from scoring and mixing a lot of the music for these films and bought a DVX100a and everything else I needed to get my self going. Almost every one of those films I have seen sitting in Blockbuster as well. The Urban Market is a Love/Hate thing for me. I love that there is one, but I hate that most of it only deals with stereotypical imagery.
Charm City (Poop)
Raeful Edmonds Doc (this one was actually good)
the Smack DVD's (Poop)
the Hood dvd series (Poop)
Shottas (Poop-yet a lot of my friends love this film)
He can Get it. (Not bad)
Any Master P/No Limit film
Any Cash Money Film
and many, many, more
Some of these are horrendous but seem to be profitable. They are in every hood clothing store, record shop, they advertise in the source, King, Vibe, Don Diva, etc. There is nothing wrong with hood, I grew up in one. but some of the "directors" I know in this part of the game only do Street themed Drug dealer docs or street themed drug dealer narratives and don't know the first thing about a camera, blocking, camera movements, lighting, audio etc. But damn if people don't buy the product. I can't knock them, they get the job done and they make money. Watching these type of films made me want to direct my own. And I used the money I made from scoring and mixing a lot of the music for these films and bought a DVX100a and everything else I needed to get my self going. Almost every one of those films I have seen sitting in Blockbuster as well. The Urban Market is a Love/Hate thing for me. I love that there is one, but I hate that most of it only deals with stereotypical imagery.
JonathanLB
Carbonite Member
Always avoid mediocrity 
jls4
Veteran
Unfortunately, my movie is one of those type of movies. Although it wasn't an "urban" film. It got picked up by an urban distributor and was placed right along side of many of the ones you mentioned. However that market is controllable, but not all that marketable. You make little to nothing, but you do make something. So keep your cost low and you should have a definate sell. Raise 250K and you'll loose your shirt. Best to keep your budget around $15 to $35K. You'll thank me later.
rogar-BigGrin(DBG)But for anyone, testing out on a 70 minute urban film with your camera will almost always yeild you a return. But like a said a very small one.
sputnikslim
Active member
The only thing I can think to add to this discussion is one name..Henry Jaglom.
Richard J. Johnson
Joystick Member
Unfortunately, my movie is one of those type of movies. Although it wasn't an "urban" film. It got picked up by an urban distributor and was placed right along side of many of the ones you mentioned. However that market is controllable, but not all that marketable. You make little to nothing, but you do make something. So keep your cost low and you should have a definate sell. Raise 250K and you'll loose your shirt. Best to keep your budget around $15 to $35K. You'll thank me later.
But for anyone, testing out on a 70 minute urban film with your camera will almost always yeild you a return. But like a said a very small one.
Good Points. How did you even get picked up? The fact that your movie was even placed with those is an acomplishment. Because a lot people have seen and still buy those movies/documentaries.
Last edited:
jls4
Veteran
I appreciate it! It's funny, I spent the last week trying to convince more ATL-iens to work on features. Now as I'm finsihing up a feature and plan to start another one in a few months, they want me to come out and maybe work on a collaborative feature with them.
On the one hand I'm excited - on the other I'm scared.
The fear comes from the fact that many people don't take filmmaking as seriously as I do. I'm not the type of person to sit on the fence. I definately "get in the game", but I make sure I understand the rules - before I try to break them. Instead of the other way around. Since they've been talking Colab, I've heard doing 3 or 4 shorts, having them all connected vs not connected at all (with characters and storyline), maybe having them all in different genres (which is actually not a bad idea) - but one guy even said maybe one could be a musical. A musical? When did you last hear about an indepedent indie musical making money? While movies ARE art, they are also business as well. No since in working a project, if we won't see reults at the end. But maybe it'll be okay and I've just got the jitters. We'll see. They want to meet tonight!
I want to help the Atlanta Movie Community get better - to start doing things more professionally. It just seems that there is a desire to go to the wild-artistic side instead of the commercial side. My belief is to hold your art until you have money, until then do commercial to make some money.
But that's just me. but we'll see how it goes tonight.
jls4
Veteran
Maybe I'm not as greateful as I should be. I thank you for the complement, but I guess I've always had a belief that anyone can do it. I don't think I'm any better than anyone else. I just think I go after what I want. As I was saying in another reply above... I push everyone to make features. It's not as difficult as everyone believes it is.
To Answer Your Question:
I started out with an idea that I felt could go two ways. First the story was very dramatic and fit in with the national news and the controversy in the media. Secondly the movie was somewhat violent to have more of an edge.
Storyline takes place in 2002-2004 when Enron and MCI Worldcom CEOs were screwing over employees. A small company is letting much of their staff go and one of the employees gets mad and comes back for revenge.
The movie came out okay. The acting was in my opinion a B-/C+ / camera C / Lighting F / Audio F / Storyline B / Writing C / Direction C and Editing C
I sent the movie off to lots of festivals $1500 worth of festivals. I didn't make it into any of them. I've now become very anti-festival (but I'll have to speak more about this to give a full understanding) finally, a small festival was starting up in Atlanta. I snubbed my nose at them for a while and finally sent my stuff in on the last day with a note saying how sorry I was for sending it in at the last minute (the note was true. I was mad at myself for being an @ss)
They accepted the movie, and not only that I won the Jury Prize of the festival!
Maverick Entertainment was there at the festival. They pick up almost anything that has a Black or Latino lead. Even if the movie sucks, can barely be watched, they'll give you somthing for it. How they make money is simple - by the time a person rents the movie - (the cover work is their prime seller) - they've already made money. Who cares if you like it? They just give you a feature to watch. Anyway, Maverick gave me an offer. I learned from R.Rodriguez to make the movie cheap. So I did - final cost for everything approx $14,500. Offer almost double that. Hey I'm a winner - SOLD. (BTW my movie had equal black and white actors. I just had a black lead)
What they didn't tell me is that I would pay almost $12,000 in backend costs for Insurance and "fixes" to the movie. Which cut pretty much all of my profit - so I ended up breaking even. but it was a good break because I believe in buying equipment - not renting. so now all of my equipment was free because of the work I did on the movie. Unfortunately the cast didn't get paid - but I told them upfront they wouldn't be getting paid. I didn't do points or anything.
As for crew. I was true R.Rodriguez style and did almost every position myself. that's why the prod value took such a hit. But if I had to do it over - I'd still do it alone. Having no one to try to share the small pot of cash and say hey "this deal is too low - cause I want some money" did help me to sell the movie quickly.
That's why I encourage you to keep your price low. Make the best movie you can, but be ready for a low offer.
On another point I got 2 reviews - wow right? The first review said basically - "This movie is awful" he didn't have anything good to say about it and kept picking on one of my side actors' acting ability. The Second review still said the movie was bad, but admitted it was better than most of the movies distributed by Maverick. He even said he would like to see a future movie by me.
WOW? So I'm like both mad and happy at the same time - weird. Hopefully this can help you in your journeys in filmmaking.
rogar-Happy(DBG):
Richard J. Johnson
Joystick Member
Very cool. My film is about the same, I did manage to get some good actors in most of the roles. Most. Could you PM me the title of your film? Good or bad I would love to check it out. Hell, I may have seen it already. I looked into maverick as well. They are exactly what I need right now. I will PM you tomorrow with some other info as well.
jls4
Veteran
You've been PM'd