Making money in this racket

[mcbob]

I’m reading this thread near the end of my rope... and hoping it’s a bungee cord instead of a noose.

Ten years ago I set out on this course of doing the impossible... something that I really enjoyed and that people thought I did well. We narrowly weathered the Great Recession, built client lists, acquired gear and skills, all the while hoping this next year, maybe, would be the one it all finally came together.

Last year seemed like it. I posted eight straight five figure months, paid off my meager little FS5, and had a dozen clients promising coming work.

Then, October, nothing. November, next to nothing. December, January, onward. Shoot schedules are being pushed back. One of my biggest clients outsourced their entire edit crew to India, and hired a guy who can’t shoot and breaks clients’ equipment to cover half my range at half my rate. I’m moving backwards, taking crap vlog hourly wage work here and there just to pay bills. Client after big client says “this is some of the best work we’ve seen!” And then promptly go silent. I can’t even book freaking Thumbtack jobs, because some national outfit vultures all the leads and then tries to hire ME to do the actual work at a fraction of its actual rate.

I’m sitting with eight four figure irons in the fire, and not a single one of them is ready to move forward just yet... maybe next month... maybe next month... maybe next month....

I have no idea where exactly I went wrong with this career. Maybe this was the wrong career for a severely introverted Aspie to begin with... but God help me, I love making “inane” little instructional and commercial videos, and have no freaking idea what else I’d do.

But I can’t keep going on like this.

 

[Josh Bass]

Bob you may well be right. I am also an introvert (can’t say I’m an aspie) and awkward in any kind of Type A salesy/promotey/marketingy situation. It’s just not me. I’m not gonna tell people how great I can make them or their business/service look or that I’m the best one to tell their story blah blah blah (the copy on seemingly ever production company’s website) cause I don’t believe it. Also I like being a simple crew member rather than producer/writer etc. except on my personal projects, so there’s that. I don’t have answers. just letting you know I’m right there with you often wondering if I belong in this biz at all.

 

[DBP]

I’m reading this thread near the end of my rope... and hoping it’s a bungee cord instead of a noose.

Ten years ago I set out on this course of doing the impossible... something that I really enjoyed and that people thought I did well. We narrowly weathered the Great Recession, built client lists, acquired gear and skills, all the while hoping this next year, maybe, would be the one it all finally came together.

Last year seemed like it. I posted eight straight five figure months, paid off my meager little FS5, and had a dozen clients promising coming work.

Then, October, nothing. November, next to nothing. December, January, onward. Shoot schedules are being pushed back. One of my biggest clients outsourced their entire edit crew to India, and hired a guy who can’t shoot and breaks clients’ equipment to cover half my range at half my rate. I’m moving backwards, taking crap vlog hourly wage work here and there just to pay bills. Client after big client says “this is some of the best work we’ve seen!” And then promptly go silent. I can’t even book freaking Thumbtack jobs, because some national outfit vultures all the leads and then tries to hire ME to do the actual work at a fraction of its actual rate.

I’m sitting with eight four figure irons in the fire, and not a single one of them is ready to move forward just yet... maybe next month... maybe next month... maybe next month....

I have no idea where exactly I went wrong with this career. Maybe this was the wrong career for a severely introverted Aspie to begin with... but God help me, I love making “inane” little instructional and commercial videos, and have no freaking idea what else I’d do.

But I can’t keep going on like this.

This is part of why, try as I might, I can never completely resist the pull of the wedding. Despite the frustrations with that genre, it tends to be very stable at least. Always new clients. Always eager to pay and obviously there's no pushing back on shoot dates or running it up the pole to make sure 9 levels of executives have their say.

It's the one thing about them that I like WAY more than corporate work. I had a nice shooting gig just recently. The people that hired me got hired by an agency, so when will I see that money? Who the heck knows. The instability is wild sometimes, compared to weddings. Feels like I need to make way more just to deal with the chaos.

That said, for the first time I'm beginning to make strides towards 'being' the company, rather than being the contractor for a company. Seems to be where the money is.

I, like you, have had reservations about my personality. This line of work has definitely brought me out of my shell, though. Honestly, while it never hurts to have a ton of sales charisma, I don't think it's entirely necessary. I'm not the most charming or outgoing guy, but I've always had a good rapport with my few clients just by showing up on time, not complaining and being pleasant. Just doing that seems to go a long way.

 

[Josh Bass]

Yeah but we're supposed to be always bringing NEW BUSINESS in. . .more and more clients. That's where the salesy stuff comes in. Yes, being nice and on time/professional is great, and helps you maintain existing relationships, but what if all your main clients were at an orgy and their orgy pad burned down? Then you're screwed.

My limited experience is that the Thumbtack type clients, all those folks in the, shall we say, lower budget range, are the ones that tend to come to you (by searching "videographer [insert city name here]"). Maybe you'll occasionally get lucky but you'll often be right on the edge of reason or beyond it when it comes to rates you can charge with those folks. The mid and higher end folks you want to work for you? THOSE are the ones you have to sell to. And you have to get crafty. Start cold calling businesses, finding the marketing guy or whoever hires the video crews, sell to them by going to lunch, etc. That kind of thing. Hunting down the folks you want to work for and convincing them they need you. It's a skill unto itself and some of us simply may not have it.

 

[DBP]

Yeah but we're supposed to be always bringing NEW BUSINESS in. . .more and more clients. That's where the salesy stuff comes in. Yes, being nice and on time/professional is great, and helps you maintain existing relationships, but what if all your main clients were at an orgy and their orgy pad burned down? Then you're screwed.

My limited experience is that the Thumbtack type clients, all those folks in the, shall we say, lower budget range, are the ones that tend to come to you (by searching "videographer [insert city name here]"). Maybe you'll occasionally get lucky but you'll often be right on the edge of reason or beyond it when it comes to rates you can charge with those folks. The mid and higher end folks you want to work for you? THOSE are the ones you have to sell to. And you have to get crafty. Start cold calling businesses, finding the marketing guy or whoever hires the video crews, sell to them by going to lunch, etc. That kind of thing. Hunting down the folks you want to work for and convincing them they need you. It's a skill unto itself and some of us simply may not have it.

Hmmm, yeah that's the conclusion I've been slowly coming to. There's definitely a ceiling for the thumbtack gigs, and it isn't very high.

I very well might not have the skills to wine and dine folks, but I'll at least hold off of those reservations until I've tried and failed.

But it seems to be the only way to actually make a decent living at this. Doing the math and how income I've gotta take in with monthly projects to even make an *average* salary is startling. Especially when you have so many people balking at rates and prices.

Lesson learned. Don't market or work for poor people.

 

[combatentropy]

Video is a custom service in a world of factory goods. Therefore it always will seem outlandishly expensive.

It really is amazing that you can buy a brand-new car for $20,000, and a good one at that. If Honda made Civics the way you made videos, each car would cost $1 million. That's the power of the assembly line. People are used to paying a few dollars for grocery items, but a pound of sugar at one time could be afforded only by kings. So the modern citizen is going around buying their milk for $3, their clothes for $20, and electronics for $50-500. Then they come across your services for several thousand dollars, and they're like, "Who does this guy think he is?" Most of you probably need to be charging $20,000 for some of your videos in order to live a middle-class life, but who of you can?

If you look at how far your dollar has been going with mass-produced goods, and then think about hiring someone to shoot your wedding, band, corporate interview, your estimate will be a tenth of what it should be. Don't you remember your indignation over the bill from your plumber or the guy who installed your floors? "That's highway robbery! These guys must think they're really special." Nope, despite charging $100 an hour, they're still scraping by, and you're doing the same thing your clients are doing to you. It's the difference between hiring a specialist to make a custom product by hand, and buying something off the shelf that was stamped out 10,000 in a day.

Even mass-produced goods can be expensive if they don't appeal to a broad population. Musical instruments, for example, can seem like a rip-off. Why is this drum set as much as a used car? Answer: because they are still a niche. By the way, this can take the edge off your lens lust. Hollywood lenses are not 100 times better optically than consumer lenses. They sell a thousandth as many Hollywood lenses because they have a weird PL mount that won't fit anyone else's camera, weigh a ton, and don't even have autofocus.

Your plumber has a leg up on you. Even though you both are custom, one-customer-at-a-time craftsmen, he only charges for when he's there. You, you go to an event and shoot for three hours, your work has just begun. Now you need to go home and spend 3-30 hours editing. So a plumber works in front of his customer for 3 hours and charges, say, $300. That's $100 an hour. You, if you're breaking even, appear before your customer for three hours and ask for $3,000. It seems to your customer that you are asking for $1,000 per hour, and that's ridiculous. But in fact you are probably making less per hour than the plumber.

 

[Run&Gun]

And the plumber has job security. "Anyone" can shoot video now. But despite all the how-to videos on YouTube for pretty much anything, how many people are willing to climb under their houses or pull up their toilets?

 

[alaskacameradude]

I’m reading this thread near the end of my rope... and hoping it’s a bungee cord instead of a noose.

Ten years ago I set out on this course of doing the impossible... something that I really enjoyed and that people thought I did well. We narrowly weathered the Great Recession, built client lists, acquired gear and skills, all the while hoping this next year, maybe, would be the one it all finally came together.

Last year seemed like it. I posted eight straight five figure months, paid off my meager little FS5, and had a dozen clients promising coming work.

Then, October, nothing. November, next to nothing. December, January, onward. Shoot schedules are being pushed back. One of my biggest clients outsourced their entire edit crew to India, and hired a guy who can’t shoot and breaks clients’ equipment to cover half my range at half my rate. I’m moving backwards, taking crap vlog hourly wage work here and there just to pay bills. Client after big client says “this is some of the best work we’ve seen!” And then promptly go silent. I can’t even book freaking Thumbtack jobs, because some national outfit vultures all the leads and then tries to hire ME to do the actual work at a fraction of its actual rate.

I’m sitting with eight four figure irons in the fire, and not a single one of them is ready to move forward just yet... maybe next month... maybe next month... maybe next month....

I have no idea where exactly I went wrong with this career. Maybe this was the wrong career for a severely introverted Aspie to begin with... but God help me, I love making “inane” little instructional and commercial videos, and have no freaking idea what else I’d do.

But I can’t keep going on like this.

I feel you. I got out of being a underpaid, overworked staff guy and started my own business
back in 2003. Mostly small corporate stuff, a lot of local TV spots. First couple years, things
were slow as I started getting my name out.....but things were slowly looking up.......then BAM.
2008-2009 recession. I lost LITERALLY every single commercial client I had. Every one of them
decided to quit putting money into marketing. When local businesses have no money......and you
have primarily marketed your services to local businesses, you are in trouble. So you need to find
clients who have money. I had to look elsewhere to find my clients. Now local businesses make
up maybe 1% of my client base and 'Broadcast or TV' work makes up maybe 5% of my work.
Anyways, last year was pretty good for me....until September. I literally had nothing in
September, ONE job in October, nothing in November and nothing in December. That's
rough and makes you really nervous. Luckily for me, things picked up after the holidays
and I've been swamped in January, February, and so far in March it's only getting busier.
Big thing was, I had socked away savings from busier times to help me weather 4 straight
crappy months. The peaks and valleys in this industry can be brutal.

For the record, I was probably the worst person who ever lived at selling and that kind of thing.
Introvert? Yeah, I literally grew up in Alaska (on an island) in a town with between 50-100 people.
Off the grid, and only float plane or boat access. Talk to someone new? I was kind of terrified
to even set foot in a town of 20-30 thousand people. I had to learn, the world won't help me.
I've got to learn this stuff or I'm not going to make it. I'm still not great at 'selling' myself and all,
but I'm getting better.

To your 'Thumbtack' point.... One thing I have definitely learned. In a small market, I'm better off
doing the whole thing as far as production goes. I cannot tell you how many times I've got a call from
StudioNow or Yellowpages online or Bizclip or Thumbtack or the like. Wanting me to shoot something.
The pitch usually goes something like 'It will only take you an hour.' They offer like $150.
They then will want me to send them the footage and they edit it and take the remaining $4850 for
'producing' the spot. I have also had other guys who run 'production companies' in my town (but have
full time day jobs) call me and want me to shoot something for them, so they can edit it later and take
90% of the money for 'producing' it. Left unsaid is how crappy it would probably be as there would
not be much cohesion between me shooting stuff and having a vision of how it would go, and them then
having to edit stuff I shot, and possibly having a totally different vision. It's not like they are going to be
there during filming....because after all they have this normal job they have to be at, so I'm on my own
as far as deciding what to shoot. And the client wants it shot during normal business hours....and they
have their normal pesky day job. Now many will say 'well, $150 is better than nothing!" But I have learned.....
I absolutely, positively do not 'compete against myself.' I'm not going to make it easy for anyone to take clients
that I could possibly get myself. Really, a lot of this stuff is stuff you have to figure out yourself. So many different
markets, clients, budgets......it's just a crazy soup of a cluster F out there. But one thing I CAN tell you. I know you've
heard 'fake it till you make it.' You do NOT want clients or potential clients to hear your self doubt when you talk
to them. They do NOT want to hear that the guy they are entrusting a 5 figure video to.....has doubts about if
he belongs in this industry. Trust me, I get it, it can suck. And you gotta do what you gotta do to pay the bills,
maybe you have to take on a part time job, or something. But try to project confidence, and try to solve problems.

Honestly on many of my projects, the actual 'quality' of the film isn't even of the utmost importance (much as I hate to say that.)
You may very well care more about that than the client does. I could show you some of my work and you'd probably say
'That's aright, nothing special.' Getting work put out that solves the problem, gets you the check, and doesn't have you
working countless hours to get said check.....is important in this business. If you know the budget is $5000 for the video,
yet you spend 3 months making the video because you are 'an artist' and have to get everything 'just right'.....well you are not
doing yourself a favor. The client likely doesn't care......the last 10% of the work you do takes 60% of your time and makes you
nothing. Likely, the client would have been fine with what you considered 90% good. That's one of the hardest lessons I've had to
learn.....because like many of us, I'm a perfectionist. Sorry, I know, probably not too helpful, but remember, things can
turn around quick. Maybe in a month or so, you will get a couple of those big jobs, then you will be worrying about having
enough time to finish the jobs you have instead of worrying about getting jobs. Good luck, I hope it turns around for you.

 

[puredrifting]

Bottom line is, video is now a commodity, not a work of art. As long as it's regarded as a commodity, many in the game will struggle to make a living, no matter how talented or artistic or at what high level you execute at.

 

[combatentropy]

Well, I think DBP put his finger on the solution:

Don't market or work for poor people.

There is a market for custom service: the rich. I would ask if anyone, in fact, has done long-term business with anyone who isn't rich. I don't always mean a person:

1. A rich person. They can afford a custom-made video. Often they seek out custom things, just to try to escape the humdrum of everyday life. ("I could buy a kitchen knife set from Target. But it would be more interesting to have Jack Blade make me one of his custom knife sets with the cherry wood handles.")

2. An upper-middle-class family splurging, like for a wedding. Middle-class people can't afford custom work normally, but they will sometimes pay for it for very special occasions, like a wedding (or even a funeral. I've also heard of people specializing in funeral videos. I don't think they were of the funeral, more like photo montages.) I've also heard of a video guy who made good money doing little bio videos for, say, your grandmother. He would record narration by family members, overlay photos in the style of Ken Burns, etc. Probably several thousand dollars for a 15-minute video. Theme: rare occasions, but still these people are rich. Most of my wedding videos were for rich people. Only they could afford to pay me the $2,000 I thought I needed --- which turned out still to be not enough, I still went out of business. I don't know of anyone making a long-term business targeting the $100 wedding video market.

3. Lawyers. I once made very easy money helping shoot some cockamamie reenactment for a legal firm. Some video guys do nothing but legal depositions. This is sort of like my last point: people in extraordinary circumstances (like a lawsuit) spend extraordinary amounts of money.

4. A company. Companies, when you compare them to people, are rich. I have worked at some, and it's jaw-dropping how they throw money around. But like others here have pointed out, companies can be as irresponsible as people in planning for the future, so one day, poof, they're gone.

5. A country. Hollywood makes movies for whole countries. That's why Hollywood can afford to spend what they do. Hold on, this has some application for you. Some of the easiest money I made was filming school recitals. It wasn't a lot of money, but it was the most dollar per effort. I set up a camera, zoomed and panned across the kids singing or dancing, sold tapes for $20. Although each family was probably middle class, my "client" was rich: a whole school. My point is, look for jobs for a school, a neighborhood, a city, a state, a country.


I welcome anyone who can challenge this theme. I wish they would, in fact. But is there a sustainable business for any client who doesn't have a lot of money?

I think anyone who is struggling has to come to this sobering reality: there are no videographers for The People. You will not last trying to make $500 custom videos. You either seek out "the rich" or starve.

But this is meant to help you, not discourage. Maybe think outside the box, using "rich" not to just mean some family in a mansion but any entity that has a lot of money. Does that entity have a need?

 

[DBP]

Well, I think DBP put his finger on the solution:



There is a market for custom service: the rich. I would ask if anyone, in fact, has done long-term business with anyone who isn't rich. I don't always mean a person:

1. A rich person. They can afford a custom-made video. Often they seek out custom things, just to try to escape the humdrum of everyday life. ("I could buy a kitchen knife set from Target. But it would be more interesting to have Jack Blade make me one of his custom knife sets with the cherry wood handles.")

2. An upper-middle-class family splurging, like for a wedding. Middle-class people can't afford custom work normally, but they will sometimes pay for it for very special occasions, like a wedding (or even a funeral. I've also heard of people specializing in funeral videos. I don't think they were of the funeral, more like photo montages.) I've also heard of a video guy who made good money doing little bio videos for, say, your grandmother. He would record narration by family members, overlay photos in the style of Ken Burns, etc. Probably several thousand dollars for a 15-minute video. Theme: rare occasions, but still these people are rich. Most of my wedding videos were for rich people. Only they could afford to pay me the $2,000 I thought I needed --- which turned out still to be not enough, I still went out of business. I don't know of anyone making a long-term business targeting the $100 wedding video market.

3. Lawyers. I once made very easy money helping shoot some cockamamie reenactment for a legal firm. Some video guys do nothing but legal depositions. This is sort of like my last point: people in extraordinary circumstances (like a lawsuit) spend extraordinary amounts of money.

4. A company. Companies, when you compare them to people, are rich. I have worked at some, and it's jaw-dropping how they throw money around. But like others here have pointed out, companies can be as irresponsible as people in planning for the future, so one day, poof, they're gone.

5. A country. Hollywood makes movies for whole countries. That's why Hollywood can afford to spend what they do. Hold on, this has some application for you. Some of the easiest money I made was filming school recitals. It wasn't a lot of money, but it was the most dollar per effort. I set up a camera, zoomed and panned across the kids singing or dancing, sold tapes for $20. Although each family was probably middle class, my "client" was rich: a whole school. My point is, look for jobs for a school, a neighborhood, a city, a state, a country.


I welcome anyone who can challenge this theme. I wish they would, in fact. But is there a sustainable business for any client who doesn't have a lot of money?

I think anyone who is struggling has to come to this sobering reality: there are no videographers for The People. You will not last trying to make $500 custom videos. You either seek out "the rich" or starve.

But this is meant to help you, not discourage. Maybe think outside the box, using "rich" not to just mean some family in a mansion but any entity that has a lot of money. Does that entity have a need?

Yep, if there one all encompassing point that I've learned in my less than lengthy tenure, it's this. I used to get frustrated with people who didn't want to spend money on video.

"Educate the client", I'd be told. Truth is, many just can't afford it and won't pay up no matter what you tell them or how you sell them. Learned this first with weddings. Rich people have money and they throw it around. Poor people do not, and they're not going to cough it up just because I explain to them how time consuming editing is. I say this as a poor person myself.

I wasted way too much time trying to convert the poor, rather than chase the rich. I love how you include collective groups as the potentially rich. Great way to think about it. Gives me something to think about anyway.

And yeah, funerals are really starting to catch on. Been offered a few. I don't think that's a road I want to go down. At least weddings are (generally) happy occasions.

 

[Josh Bass]

One thing I haven't seen a lot of mention here is working as a crew member for production companies. I'm talking commercials, larger corporate video productions, reality stuff, etc. May not be an option based on where you're located, but it's kind of a point between the dregs and selling yourself to the wealthy. The production company (or maybe ad agency) does the hard part of convincing the end client to spend money, you have to work your way in to the production circles so they hire you (DP, grip, DIT, whatever). How do you get "in" with these folks if you've never worked in that world? Tough question. This is a world where people like working with. . .people they already know/like/have worked with. It's kind of its own thing and might be a shock to the system the first time someone used to being a one man band or working very simply with an assistant is on a "real" set.

 

[Imamacuser]

I think videoing funerals is the weirdest most morbid thing you could shoot, but when people ask me to do it I'm happy to take their money.

 

[DBP]

One thing I haven't seen a lot of mention here is working as a crew member for production companies. I'm talking commercials, larger corporate video productions, reality stuff, etc. May not be an option based on where you're located, but it's kind of a point between the dregs and selling yourself to the wealthy. The production company (or maybe ad agency) does the hard part of convincing the end client to spend money, you have to work your way in to the production circles so they hire you (DP, grip, DIT, whatever). How do you get "in" with these folks if you've never worked in that world? Tough question. This is a world where people like working with. . .people they already know/like/have worked with. It's kind of its own thing and might be a shock to the system the first time someone used to being a one man band or working very simply with an assistant is on a "real" set.

Definitely nothing wrong with it and I absolutely think money can be made once you climb the rate ladder. I started real low in this regard, but I've moved up a bit to where it's at least worth it.

But like you say, it seems to be a network that you need to slowly penetrate. That was my problem. I spent so many years as either a wedding guy or a one man band corporate guy, that I have zero network to speak of. Slowly fixing that now by taking on these types of gigs, but it'll take a little while I'm sure. Time spent in one field unfortunately doesn't always help you in another.

I've also come to really appreciate shooting, handing over footage collecting a cheque. No editing. No revisions. No meetings and discussions. I could easily see myself being happy as a shooter for 90% of my income, and only editing for passion projects or really motivating material.

 

[Josh Bass]

Yes, I like that too. I would try to find out who hires for those jobs (the production-type gigs) and contact them, let them know you exist, shop your reel/samples of your work to them. Follow up once a month or something.

 

[chris f]

In my experience regardless of production role or the industry that is wanting your services the way to raise your rates and/or make more money is simple, but not easy:

Make work that other people can see and then want for themselves.

Like every other industry it's about supply and demand. If there's no demand for what YOU uniquely do, then you'll have no leverage to raise your rates. In my experience no client (big or small) has a demand for hiring me to do what they haven't seen me do before. At minimum I need to be able to show them something that they think is really well done that is in the ballpark of what they're looking to hire me to do. Why take the risk on somebody with no proof when they can keep looking around and find someone else with a proven track record of creating what they're looking for?

Often times, client's won't be funding your stepping stone to higher rates either, they'll be stretching their budgets already. For me when a project comes along that I think has potential to be a great showcase piece (aka the content is great and is something I want to do more of) I'll decide internally to take less money and put profit that would have gone into my pocket back into the production as an "investment" to have something better to showcase. Sometimes it pays off, sometimes it doesn't, but over time I've developed a portfolio of projects that I want to do more of that look, feel, and sound way more expensive than they were to make, which allows me to eventually charge more to new clients that come to me.

That's one other note as well....100% of my clients come to me and about 95% of them come from referrals which gives me even more leverage because they come already wanting me and my services and if referred have a certain level of trust already that I'm worth whatever I'm going to charge. It took me about 7 years or so to get to this point and it's not always smooth sailing, but by over-delivering to my clients and (maybe more importantly) being someone with whom they really enjoyed the process of working together, I can now sustain a full-time business based on all inbound clients which gives me a lot more opportunities to keep increasing my rates.

Hope this helps!