Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

S

SquidLips

Well-known member
I posted this on the XL2 forum as well:

I am starting a feature film in December shot 90% outside in natural light. We have a budget of 15K and this will be my first feature shot on video (have done all super 16mm and 35mm). We need to get the "film look" as much as possible as the film markets still pay less for "video looking" projects.

My question is, since it seems this board feels XL2 has less of an in-product film look than the DVX100A but has the 16X9 feature down cleaner and the film I am shooting needs to be both 1:85 and "film-look", which would be the choice?

I have $800 in the budget towards the camera and I will cover the rest with my own money. I can find DVXs for about 2 thousand or so on Ebay and the XL2 is about 3 thousand on a few online retailers. What would be the recommendations based on my needs?

Thanks!
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

Stay away from an XL2 under $4000 or a DVX100A under $3000 or at least question the hell out of them...is it an American model, do the included accessories come with it, etc.  They'll try to sell you $400 to $600 extended warranty and if you don't bite, suddenly the camera has to be "back ordered", etc.  EBAY has some good prices from Digitalcorp and they'll include all the accessories plus extras.  DVX: $3499
XL2:$4829.  Of course there will be others selling the XL2 or DVX with no extras for less, and again I stress, QUESTION THEM!

You may find some used possibilities on this site and another:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/index.php?s=

This is another message board for all DV.
Check it out.
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

Depending on how many shooting days you have planned, you might consider renting. I've seen the DVX100 rent for as little as $75 a day up to $150 a day. Don't forget your other costs for Widescreen adapter, sound gear, etc..
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

Thanks for the help. I guess my concern with the DVX was that I would pay almost the same for the camera and still need the Adaptor for the 16X9. There is a reputable camera store on line that my friend has bought from several times that sells the XL2 for under $3100. So, at a price like that, the DVX100A is about the same.

But I am hearing the film-look of the DVX is better and plus it has the small LCD.
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

Unless he is looking for a final film transfer, where the uprezzing would be done anyway.
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

Digital corp looks like a good deal, but don't fall for it. That's where I bought my cam from. Aside from the case, the accessories are crap. You can't use the telephoto lens and the wide angle adds virtually no real estate to the shot. The tripod is the cheapest around and the filters don't do much (except the UV protecting the lens) Oh wait, they did throw in one of thos little tabletop bendie tripods for a regular still camera (don't ask me why). SO really, you get a camera and a case for 3500 hundred. The retailer here in Denver would have given me the same price. It's true I would have had to pay a couple of hundred in sales tax, but it would have been worth it because...

Dum dUm dAAAA DuuuuuMMM..

I GOT NO WARRANTY! Digital corp is not an authorized dealer, hence no warranty. Now I am almost too afraid to take it out of the case. Always confirm WITH THE MANUFACTURER that the dealer is authorized and can offer a warranty. IF they are more than a few hundred bucks lower than the market value, they probably arent authorized. It will seem like a good deal until two weeks after you get it there's a problem that you need to pay for out of your own pocket.

Check this thread for authorized dealers

http://www.dvxuser.com/cgi-bin/DVX2/YaBB.pl?board=market;action=display;num=1091770451

Good luck with the project.
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?


one big plus in my mind is that the dvx has been out for a while and the 100a of course is a newer release with some improvements.

factor in that there is a large base of people with the dvx willing to help, plus there is a major resource on here - barry green - he has a book that just came out that should help greately in getting the most out of the camera.

i would contact rush at evsonline (call on the phone) have your entire list of equipment you need and have him give you a price for the whole setup.

then check out the used forum on here, you can get some great deals, especially on the add-ons like the 16:9 lens.

also see what sort of help you can get locally, there might be a couple of dvx users right in your area who would love to work on your project!

matthew
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

Hey SquidLips,

Please let me know what happens if you try to buy the XL2 from the reputable company you talked about. Canon lists the camera for $4999. I would like to know what you're going to get for $3100.00.
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

Hey Jim,

I bought my 100A from Digitalcorp too, and I received a USA manufacturers warranty with it. When did you get yours from Digitalcorp?
I agree with you that the tri-pod is crap, even for a still camera, and what you said about the other items.
But when I priced around for the camera only, at lower cost, they wanted to add $400 for the USA version, making the cost actually $3500. So I said to myself, what the hell, for the same price I can at least get a decent case, a protective filter, a cleaning kit and 5 tapes...and pay zero taxes.
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

I bought it about 2 months ago. Was your warranty in the box? I e-mailed panasonic and they said I had no warranty. Hmmm, I'd sleep better at night if I had one...
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

Well, obviously, this is the DVXUSER forum, so we tend to be a bit biased towards the DVX100.

Don't fool with squeeze mode or anamorphic lenses, no matter which camera you end up with. Shoot it 4:3 and crop in post, or have the film out company do that.
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

I like letterbox. That's what my final product ends up as, and I don't worry as much about what I might lose in the framing if I crop it later on.
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

I've been scanning the posts on squeeze... I get the impression it has no real use. Is this correct? Is it basically useless Or is there a time when squeeze is a good call? ???

Thanx
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

squeeze is good if you can't get the anamorphic but need footage to be displayed on 16:9 TVs primarily. For film-outs, it's probably the lowest quality route to go, and for mainly 4:3 viewing, you'd want letterboxed.
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

Sounds like letterbox is still a better choice for resolution - No?
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

well, squeeze is lower resolution when being viewed on a 4:3 TV, because youre blowing up the middle section of a picture, then shrinking it back down unneccesarily. But for showing on a 16:9 TV, it's better than 4:3 mode (not neccesarily though photozoomed footage, but that's another issue). Because the uprezzing is done before compression, there is a slightly better image yeilded - you'd be blowing it up after compression on the TV to view it in proper dimensions were it a letterboxed image. Plus, it's easier and you don't have to think about it.

But for film-outs or 4:3 viewing, letterboxed or masked 4:3 footage is the best non-anamorphic way to go.
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

Sorry Mike (or Barry or anyone) This is nagging at me. I thought when you tossed squeeze footage into the NLE in a 16:9 project this was higher res then letterbox. Disregard Anamorphic lens and for film-out but just highest resolution. Is the resolution higher? And would this not produce better quality if no Ana lens available. And finally… Let’s assume its being projected on a 20 foot screen via DLP – Is letterbox the way to go? :-/

Sooo confused. ??? ???
 
Re: Making A 15K Feature, Which Camera?

They are not the same. They are not directly comparable.

Squeeze is 16:9 footage. Letterbox is 4:3 footage. They are not the same. They are not directly comparable.

With that said, Letterbox holds a very slight edge in overall resolution. Squeeze starts out as Letterbox footage, but then gets stretched, and in the stretching process there's a very slight resolution loss (less than 3%, I think).

But it's basically irrelevant, because you cannot use that same footage on a different type of television. Those two types of footage are not used on the same display device. If you shoot letterbox, you cannot display that properly on a 16:9 TV... you'd have to stretch it in post, which will lose some resolution.

If you shoot squeeze, it'll be stretched on a 4:3 TV. You'd have to un-squeeze it, and in that case letterbox would definitely be slightly sharper.

If you're projecting on a 20 foot screen via DLP... are you projecting it from a 16:9-native projector? Or a 4:3 projector? Squeeze is 16:9, Letterbox is 4:3.

They are not the same.

They are not directly comparable.
 
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