make Adobe hear us !!! support the HVX !!

the 24p normal problem does not apply to systems running the Matrox x.100 card - but I submitted my request anyhow
 
Sure, the matrox x.100 forces 29.97 playback no matter what footage you have - the 24p normal or advance playes back at 29.97 rate.

I am currently cutting a project (18 hrs of footage shot using 24p normal) using premiere pro 1.5.1 & a matrox x.100 card. If I bring the footage into a normal premiere pro timeline, it flickers and has issues - pullup/pulldown - especially when you plug in a camcorder.

However, If I import that project into a X.100 timeline (inside premiere) it plays fine out to my tv/encoding to dvd/ output to avi. I have not tested output to dv device through the X.100 - but I dont need to because if I output to avi, it would be fine/the avi plays fine without the x.100 in a normal premiere pro timeline.

When you put 24p normal footage in a 29.97 timeline it has a red render line over all of it. With the x.100, that render line dissappears and everything seems to work. Only a few times premiere has crashed with this setup - normally it never does with editing 60i material or 24p advanced on my system (knock on wood :) )

The only issue that I have seen is sometimes on playback, I get a "dropped 1 field error" (say after playing straight for 15 min. But the playback is not stopped and it just continues playing. If I render out to avi and play that, no playback errors.
 
I heard the Matrox video codec is different from the one used in PP1.5. The Matrox codec doesn't recognize 24p, which in this case is a blessing.
 
The moment that I learned about the HVX200 I contacted Adobe to request support for this camera. Failing a Premier Pro solution, I would likely go with Avid. I have already placed a preorder for a HVX200 so I'll need to find a NLE solution as well. I too would recommend that anyone who uses Premier should contact Adobe about support for the HVX.
 
I'm not waiting on Adobe for their premiere updates.. I'm slowly switching over to final cut and vegas and I hate to say this but, I'm likey the two over premiere. I've been an adobe supporter since Premiere 4.0. I hate to file a divorce but she anit listening to my needs. :)
 
Can someone explain to me what specifically the bugs are regarding 24p in Premiere? Which versions are effected, and is it for 24p AND 24p Advanced?
 
No, both are affected, but 24p Normal is affected more than 24p Advanced.

Contantine, this forum has lots of threads on this issue, so go read the previous threads before posting a request to explain the issues.

But, for a quick summary, here's an overall summary I wrote on Adobe's Premiere Pro forum. (From the long thread "PPro 1.5 BUG -- 24p handled incorrectly.")

If you shot in 24p Advanced and will be going out to a progressive 24p DVD, PPro 1.5 will generally give you good results.

If you shot in 24p Normal, from the start you will possibly encounter the strobing in bright areas.

If you export to tape, with either 24p advanced or 24p Normal, your output tape may have strobing problems as well.

With either 24p format, you MUST turn on Scene Detection when you capture (or carefully manually log your scenes), otherwise you will encounter bad interlacing artifacts, since PPro automatically applies the pulldown removal based on the first few frames and you cannot change the cadence it applies.

In some cases, even if you scene detect, PPro may get it wrong and introduce interlacing artifacts into what should be progressive footage. This can happen if the break between shots on your tape was rough, perhaps because of dirty heads. In such a case there's nothing you can do other than manually log and capture your footage, making sure your in point is several frames into the shot.

(For me, the interlacing artifacts are the most frustrating part of PPro's 24p problems -- you can get around the strobing issues by using effects to limit the luminance of your footage. But dealing with the pulldown removal problems can be very time-consuming.)

Oh, and PPro 1.5 ALWAYS applies the pulldown removal, so if for some reason you wanted to use your 24p footage in a 60i timeline -- for example to mix with standard NTSC footage -- you are in for long render times, and are better off in PPro 1.0.

And Finally, while other programs (like Vegas) include 24p MPEG-DVD export presets, Adobe neglected to include 24p presets in the Adobe Media Encoder, so most users have trouble getting a good 24p DVD. Some settings are obvious (Frame Rate: 23.976, Progressive) while others are not (N Frames should be "12".)

That summarizes the issues with PPro and 24p. I hope it is helpful.
 
Very helpful, thanks. I have already sent adobe an email regarding the HVX and the 24p issues. Thanks for the info. Peace.
 
why in the world do these programs not support 24p in a stable productive way.... including matrox.......
i cant believe what a pain in the ass it seems to be to utilize the benifits of these cameras like dvx and xl2
im trying to build my system for the dvx im gona purchase this month.......and im clueless what to do or buy if i want a real time 24 p or what ever p recording system that runs smooth. Is there such a thing?
How can adobe be quiet.......how can matrox be quiet?
i cant believe what a head ache getting a productive system has turned out to be.
i think i need to face it that i need to quit my job so i can sit around and wait on render times all day...........o....that is if i can keep my matrox pro from crashing!.......ooooooo and after spending a month trying to fix it blowing money rebuilding my system till my warranty runs out.
what a freakin gip!
 
most people with matrox systems relaly like them. remember the system has to be built around the RTX 100 x PRO.. according to the matrox website machine specs.. if youve done that it should work fine.. there also a couple hotfixes available which fixed some little quirks that happen from time to time..like the hanging timeline on import and such. .. i have one.. it just doesnt do 24p.. however he matrox axio which support all types of HD does support 24p but its apx 12,000.00. PPRO runs 24p great IMHO i always shoot 24pa and have no problems . the new version of PPRO has been reported as supporting the HVX and DVCPRO HD .. im sure theve improoved the 24p support as well. anyway , my point is that a stable system which is carefully planned out to spec will run great with the products your mentioning.
 
The rumor mill says there will be a new RTX that will do HDV/DVCproHD but not the scale of AXIO and will not be on only certified systems - after all, the .x100 has 34,000 sold. Matrox is not stupid - the parhelia cards are great for editing. Axio is ment to edit with the big dogs - 10bit color space, full breakout box. The Axio looks fantastic - but there is a big gap in the middle for a new RTX.

Parhelia ~$250
New RTX ~ $2,000? Guess
Axio ~$12,000 + system and storage = $20,000
 
..i love my parhelia, couldt live without it. a new RTX would be great . as long as its compatable with all the DVCPRO HD and DVCPRO50 and such the HVX offers and of course handles 24p in all its flavors within those specs. that would be very nice indeed.
 
from the .x100 forums and from some other industry people I keep in touch with. The only problem is how long will it take - anybodys guess. Matrox is not the fastest in bringing stuff to market. Also, lets hope its not vaperware - this would not be the first time (but that was from their graphics division)
 
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